For the record, I've been with the MGS series since Metal Gear Solid came out for the Playstation. I really enjoyed all three of those games, and while the story for the 2nd and 3rd couldn't compete with the 1st, I feel MGS2 and MGS3 had greater gameplay.
MGS4 was way over-hyped to me, and I was extremely disappointed with it. I suppose the largest problem with the game was the fact that the movies dominated literally 90% of my game time. The game certainly had the potential to be very fun, but it wasn't executed. There were only a few hours of actual gameplay and I found myself most of the time watching the movies. MGS4 felt like a $60 movie.
I wasn't opposed to the movies in the past, but this time around they clearly dominated the game and were longer than ever. The story itself, at times, was very moving (with Snake continuing to fight as he approached death) while other parts were just stupid. For example, at the end Big Boss turns out to be alive, only to die again for a 3rd time. MGS seems like a comic book series, with constant resurrections of characters that should just remain dead. At first it turned out that Big Boss was alive, but in Eva's possession and as a vegetable. Then it's revealed that this was actually Solidus, as if Big Boss being alive at all wasn't enough of a ludicrous twist. And then we have the situation with Ocelot's hand controlling him, which made no sense back in MGS2 and up until the end of the game was actually believed to be Liquid. Some parts of the movies were just plain boring, such as watching Sunni repeatedly make eggs.
Twists like Big Boss being alive are basically an insult to the fans. You're told repeatedly that he's dead for several games, only to have him turn out to be alive. These types of twists are only twists because you wouldn't expect something so ludicrous. It wasn't like the twists in MGS1 where Naomi Hunter injected Foxdie into Snake which is what caused people to die around him, or that McDonald Miller was Liquid. These were solid surprises that actually were feasible in accordance to the story.
Now onto the gameplay. As I said, it had potential, with all the new weapons and new CQC and movement options for Old Snake. However, besides the limited amount of time you actually get to play as Snake, I also never got to play the game like I did in the first three games. You're basically always trying to sneak through an army. This makes it extremely difficult to ever stalk a soldier because there are so many others around in open sight. In the old games Snake would often be in building with a limited number of enemies so you could have more fun with them. In a war environment you're just better off avoiding them altogether, as combat isn't really an option. What I mean by this is that once an Alert is raised, the soldiers often would show up infinitely. This never happened (at least on very easy) with the old games, and severely reduce the fun. What's the point of killing anyone if they'll re-spawn in a matter of seconds? You have to resort to either leaving the area or just hiding until the alert goes away. You lose the option to simply wipe out the enemy and their reinforcements. I feel MGS3 was the most absolute fun with this.
I started to realize the game was going to be a big disappointment after I realized just how short Act 3 was excluding the movies. All it consisted of was stalking a resistance member (which I found to be boring after it dragged on for over 10 minutes), then a motorcycle chase (which was moderately fun), and a boss battle against Raven. That was it. The long cut scenes put a veil over the fact that the game is just too short, and I found it outrageous that IGN actually would give it a 10 for lasting appeal.
The war-zone aspect which controlled the first two parts of the game (and the ones with the most gameplay) did not feel appropriate for a Metal Gear Solid game. Trying to be stealthy through a battlefield seems unfitting, and it also doesn't make sense why alerts form only when the enemy sees you yet every other rebel firing doesn't cause any reaction. MGS4 doesn't have the atmosphere that made the first 3 games excel. Those games had the setting for stealth.
I will say I enjoyed parts of Act 4, if not mostly for nostalgia's sake. I did find avoiding little robots to be rather boring after a while. Such an environment would be the ideal place for the type of gameplay that I loved from the previous games. Areas with up to 5 troops that you have to avoid or kill are what made MGS thrive. The battlefields made this game feel a bit more like Call of Duty. Perhaps one act of it would have been fine for some change that some may have liked more than others, but the fact is that even in the last act on Outer Haven, you're forced to dodge what appear to be battalions of soldiers and machines. What used to be a few guards has become an army. You basically are restricted to solely be stealthy because if a gunshot is heard by the enemy, an alert will form where countless (and infinite troops) will shoot endlessly. What used to be 2 or 3 backup soldiers became limitless enemies.
Whether or not any game should get a perfect score is not the case here. From the reviews I was convinced I'd really enjoy MGS4, but the reviews were way off in my opinion. How could a game that gets only a few hours of gameplay (which is often not that fun) receive the ultimate score for lasting appeal (according to IGN). A 10 for lasting appeal should only be for games that will be fun for years. Super Smash Brothers is an example of such a game by my view. From my standpoint it's hardly a game. The story overshadows the gameplay. So much was put into the story that Konami seems to have neglected what made MGS so fun. Like I said, a little change is fine, but change is all there was. Gone are the buildings with a few guards, now replaced with armies of futurist machines and soldiers who can jump on walls. I was shocked at the fictional changes in technology that occurred in only 5 years from when MGS2 took place.
The game disappoints more because of all the praise it has received. I feel like I must have skipped over a major part of the game. It's good to have extras and online features, but the main game is so severely lacking when it could have been so much more. Gorgeous graphics, excellent mechanics, all hindered by the small quantities of gameplay and new settings Old Snake is in and the enemies he now faces which have severely limited options for how to proceed with the game.
Last edited by congo kong; 06-16-2008 at 11:05 PM.
Reason: Have to insert SPOILER warning...
I have never played or even read anything about this game but the length and detail of your post (which I can only assume is a review you have posted all over the Internet) caught my eye.
I do find it hard to believe that 90% of any game could be movies but once again I have never played it so I don't know.
At this point based on what very little I know of this game and you All I can say is good job and welcome. I hope I don't have to take back either of those statements.
To anyone replying to this or any other thread: "no, you're wrong" is not a valid post. At least try to give some reason why you disagree.
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I see how IGN gave it a perfect 10. On my first play through, I would wholeheartedly agree, as I'm sure anyone who enjoyed the previous metal gears would as well. However, the second time through the game I basically didn't care about the story anymore, and just skipped all the cutscenes. The game literally took 7 hours to complete. This may sound like a long time (i'm sure if I ran through it, it would only take 4-5 hours), but I was literally searching every nook and cranny for cool items (i made a guide for this game). With that much exploration, and how I took the time to sneak by every enemy in like 2 or three different ways, it's rather surprising it only took me that long, especially considering how my first playthrough took me in excess of 20 hours. While it adds a lot of cool features, there really just isn't enough gameplay to keep it fresh after a while. If it wasn't for MGO, i would already be done with this game. When I actually look back on it, I think I may have enjoyed the original Metal Gear Solid a bit more. That's mostly because, what story was there, was in the perfect proportion. In this one, raiden died like 3 times. Every member from the beauty and the beast had a totally bogus, unbelievable story, and were by far the worst set of bosses in the Metal Gear franchise. Not only that, but the face camos for them are all horribly ugly, except for Laughing Octopus', which is simply mildly attractive. Considering how she's hotter than Naomi when she's in her human form, this is quite a drastic change.
There's just so much I wish was different about MGS 4. Why did they have to make snake old? Why couldn't they have fit more gameplay on that disc instead of long, drawn out cutscenes? Why did we not even fight a metal gear on foot (although that rex battle was the coolest part of this entire series, even surpassing the half blade action in MGS2) at all during the game?
Don't get me wrong, the story was AMAZING. It's just that after you've seen it once, it really doesn't pull your heartstrings ever again. It's once and done, like a cheap hooker. It's something that everyone HAS to experience, but not something that people will continue to play for years to come.
And why did they never tell us how Raiden freed Sunny from the patriots?
. I suppose the largest problem with the game was the fact that the movies dominated literally 90% of my game time.
Large exaggeration. Also, if you really are an MGS fan, you would expect nothing other. While I agree MGS4 had longer cutscenes than the other games, but you have to remember that the first 3 games had a ridiculous amount of unresolved plot holes, and information that the player didn't receive. All of that was put into MGS4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by congo kong
For example, at the end Big Boss turns out to be alive, only to die again for a 3rd time. MGS seems like a comic book series, with constant resurrections of characters that should just remain dead. At first it turned out that Big Boss was alive, but in Eva's possession and as a vegetable. Then it's revealed that this was actually Solidus, as if Big Boss being alive at all wasn't enough of a ludicrous twist. And then we have the situation with Ocelot's hand controlling him, which made no sense back in MGS2 and up until the end of the game was actually believed to be Liquid.
MGS is not supposed to be realistic. I figured you would know this by now. It is an over the top storyline. Watch the Bonus Round at Gametrailers on MGS4, and they even talk about the story line being more comic booky, but they don't talk about it as a bad thing. Also, the Solidus with Eva is completely plausible. It probably would be more plausible if it was ACTUALLY Big Boss as if I recall you lit him on fire in MG2
Quote:
Originally Posted by congo kong
Some parts of the movies were just plain boring, such as watching Sunni repeatedly make eggs.
That was about 4 minutes of the whole game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by congo kong
Twists like Big Boss being alive are basically an insult to the fans. You're told repeatedly that he's dead for several games, only to have him turn out to be alive. These types of twists are only twists because you wouldn't expect something so ludicrous. It wasn't like the twists in MGS1 where Naomi Hunter injected Foxdie into Snake which is what caused people to die around him, or that McDonald Miller was Liquid. These were solid surprises that actually were feasible in accordance to the story.
I don't recall Foxdie killing people around Snake. Fxodie was made to kill specific targets. Naomi injected it into Snake and programed it to kill him at any random time in his life. This was for revenge for crippling Frank Jaeger (Grey Fox). Also, you thought Miller putting his hair down was a good surprise?? All he did was put his hair down, and Snake is like. "LIQUID!!!!". I thought you were talking about realism before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by congo kong
Trying to be stealthy through a battlefield seems unfitting, and it also doesn't make sense why alerts form only when the enemy sees you yet every other rebel firing doesn't cause any reaction.
Because you are the intended target. When they are fighting against the rebels, to them it is just another fight. You are the target that they are supposed to keep an eye out for. If they see you, they will react.
Quote:
Originally Posted by congo kong
A 10 for lasting appeal should only be for games that will be fun for years.
Have you looked at the list of unlockables and easter eggs??? Well, first you have to enjoy the gameplay, if you do, you can play the game over several times just to unlock everything. Plus the edition of MGO will keep you busy for a while also.[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by congo kong
So much was put into the story that Konami seems to have neglected what made MGS so fun.
I didn't notice as much hype about this game as alot of others. But even still I think it delivered. It's still ahead of it's time from every other game out there no matter how you cut it. It's alot better than the other most Mass-Hyped game of the year that I thought was crap.
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If anything, I thought this game was under-hyped (total opposite obviously). I feel this game was good it was put into a more gunner friendly environment. It gave people a choice to end Snake's saga on a bang (probably for fans who were itching and newcomers) or with stealth (for the loyal fans)
The cinematics were necessary. They made sense too with you know who at the end. Never thought Solidus would be involved within that way after MGS2. If they didn't include these types of cinematics people would be pissed. The main reason this game was delivered the way it was was mainly to answer questions. Yes, a typical MGS game from before would have been cool but after playing this I'm kinda questioning how they would do it.
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Tuhan, I totally agree. This is a great game, that hasn't really been talked about. Everyone that I know hasn't talked about this game at all except for one of my friends.
I know the MGS loyal are going to burn me, but i think this game is pretty much started to drag after the second level. I mean aside from the cutscenes, which were cool & informative, yet long, it was pretty lame after that point, and all the PMC action being thrown around in all the preview talk was pretty much nill. Lame, since i personally thought fighting with two factions was the best part of the game gameplaywise. I do like the game for being a narrative work of art, but other than that, its the same exact ****, they just removed the fixed camera.
I was expecting everything to be alot bigger and expansive, and just a tad less linear. Which is why i cant imagine why people are calling this the greatest game ever, or continue to compare it to GTA, which debatably has more depth gameplay wise, but yet again two totally different games.
In any case, im just glad all this metal gear stuff is done with so all the MGS nerds wont have a reason to come out of thier cave and disturb us with thier presence, not directed towards any of you guys though.
Oh and P.S. with alittle effort, this game can easily be ported to 360. Anyone who says otherwise is a fanyboy, and is lying to themselves.
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Last edited by strictlystyles; 06-18-2008 at 03:21 AM.
Yeah, but its not going to be ported. When you are installing the game, one of the messages say "This game is exclusive to the Sony Playstation 3 console only".
Also the fact that it sold 1.2 million on it's first day, and 500,000 alone in the first 3 days in Japan. Also selling about 80,000 PS3s in those few days (still in Japan), out of the normal 10-15 (sometimes 20) thousand a week.
It will easily sell 3-4 million. If the bundle is a long term deal, that would boost it up even higher. That is more than enough to earn a profit large enough to not have to even consider porting it.
I didnt really say they have to have had a reason to port it, imjust saying it could be done. I only mention that because everyone before hand was making such a big deal like it was 3000% impossible to play it on a 360, and after playing it, all those sayings were totally exagerrated.
And i dunno about 4 million copies, i think you are getting waaaay ahead of yourself there. Im sorry if it sounds negative but im sure everyone who wants metal gear will have it within the next month or two, then the sales will probably just trickle in a bit for the rest of the consoles lifespan, like any other game.
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