i play rugby here in the states. I grew up watching football, and my friend is pretty close to playing minor league hockey (we hope) but what im trying to say is he plays hockey at a competetive level. my vote was for rugby (as un bias as i can be).
I choose rugby for a few reasons:
1) 40 minute halves, no stoppage of play, no substitutions, constant movement and constantly going muscle to muscle vs the other team.
-Hockey is 3 periods of 15 minutes, with open subs... in pro hockey, players see on average about 30-90 seconds of constant play time before a line change, and allthough skating is VERY draining, you are not constantly going muscle for muscle
2) no 'offense' and 'defensive' players, each player on the field is in charge of both duties at ALL times (ALL being Key)
-Where as true in hockey as well, there is still designated offense and defense players to fall back to default.
3)the amount of physically draining tasks in Rugby out number those in hockey. Scrums, rucking and line outs are extremely tiring and not only are there more, you have to do them more than you do in Hockey (80 minutes apposed to 45)
-Face offs are to hockey what the scrum is the rugby. a scrum is 8 players trying to out-strengthen 8 other players pushing back at you... and i am aware ice skating is more physically draining that running
4) no blocking in rugby.
-plain and simple, you're open to getting hit more often where there is no one blocking or paving the way for you.
5)no pads... specically Helmets
- i actually believe that pads dont really do all that much.. the only real reason you need pads is because the other guy has pads... but helmets save you... concussions are a pretty normal injury in rugby... I get at least one a year (only minor ones)
6) player to ref ratio
-Rugby = ONE ref and 30 players
-Hockey = 2 refs for 10 players
cheap shots and trying to get the upper hand is just human nature, and illegal as they are, they ALWAYS happen, no matter what sport. if you have ONE ref watching 30 players, it is MUCH harder to catch a cheap shot that it is for 2 refs watching 10 players
7) rules.
- ive watched my friends hockey games, and i have yet to completely understand all the rules, i will admit. But im pretty sure there are more rules in Hockey to protect against the 'lethal' hits and such than that in rugby.
I am NOT saying Hockey isnt rough, or hard, or anything. Trust me, i am not taking anything away from hockey. It is a very tough sport to play, with hard painful hits. But all in all, i think rugby is the tougher of the 2 due to time on field, amount of work and chances of catching cheap shots. Not to mention the lack of blocking. In my game today, actually, a guy on the other team broke a rib. I choose rugby, being as un bias as i can be. there's plenty more i could say on the topic, but im sure this is long enough and you get my point.
i play rugby here in the states. I grew up watching football, and my friend is pretty close to playing minor league hockey (we hope) but what im trying to say is he plays hockey at a competetive level. my vote was for rugby (as un bias as i can be).
I choose rugby for a few reasons:
1) 40 minute halves, no stoppage of play, no substitutions, constant movement and constantly going muscle to muscle vs the other team.
-Hockey is 3 periods of 15 minutes, with open subs... in pro hockey, players see on average about 30-90 seconds of constant play time before a line change, and allthough skating is VERY draining, you are not constantly going muscle for muscle
2) no 'offense' and 'defensive' players, each player on the field is in charge of both duties at ALL times (ALL being Key)
-Where as true in hockey as well, there is still designated offense and defense players to fall back to default.
3)the amount of physically draining tasks in Rugby out number those in hockey. Scrums, rucking and line outs are extremely tiring and not only are there more, you have to do them more than you do in Hockey (80 minutes apposed to 45)
-Face offs are to hockey what the scrum is the rugby. a scrum is 8 players trying to out-strengthen 8 other players pushing back at you... and i am aware ice skating is more physically draining that running
4) no blocking in rugby.
-plain and simple, you're open to getting hit more often where there is no one blocking or paving the way for you.
5)no pads... specically Helmets
- i actually believe that pads dont really do all that much.. the only real reason you need pads is because the other guy has pads... but helmets save you... concussions are a pretty normal injury in rugby... I get at least one a year (only minor ones)
6) player to ref ratio
-Rugby = ONE ref and 30 players
-Hockey = 2 refs for 10 players
cheap shots and trying to get the upper hand is just human nature, and illegal as they are, they ALWAYS happen, no matter what sport. if you have ONE ref watching 30 players, it is MUCH harder to catch a cheap shot that it is for 2 refs watching 10 players
7) rules.
- ive watched my friends hockey games, and i have yet to completely understand all the rules, i will admit. But im pretty sure there are more rules in Hockey to protect against the 'lethal' hits and such than that in rugby.
I am NOT saying Hockey isnt rough, or hard, or anything. Trust me, i am not taking anything away from hockey. It is a very tough sport to play, with hard painful hits. But all in all, i think rugby is the tougher of the 2 due to time on field, amount of work and chances of catching cheap shots. Not to mention the lack of blocking. In my game today, actually, a guy on the other team broke a rib. I choose rugby, being as un bias as i can be. there's plenty more i could say on the topic, but im sure this is long enough and you get my point.
To correct you...
1.) Hockey is 3 periods with 20 minutes each (not including any overtimes and shootouts that may occur). They sub because it's a team effort and have short shifts because it gets tiring fast.
2.) With the rules and concepts that hockey has, of course there are defensemen and offensmen and goalies. It doesn't mean they HAVE to play that position, it just means it's their strength. Numerous d-men play offense all the time, and the other way as well.
3.) Every tried getting a puck out of the corner with two defensemen on you? It's pretty damned hard. Getting a ball roughly the size of a human head from someone is a tad easier than something the size of a puck. Again, hockey is around an hour long, not including intermissions, stoppages (fights, offsides, faceoffs, etc). And running is actually more tiring than skating, so it just shows you've never tried it.
4.) Ever seen an open-ice hit before? It means players have to keep their heads up so they don't get hit, and that takes skill while puck handling.
5.) Pads are used in hockey because the momentum from the skates is much higher than running, as well as the puck and ice is harder than grass. Not to mention the rink is surrounded by boards with plexi-glass.
6.) There are actually 4 refs in hockey. Two linesmen that watch for offsides and two head refs that call penalties and watch the goal lines. Cheaps shots don't happen often in hockey because of the refs and cheapshots cause teams to lose games.
7.) The amount of rules in hockey really isn't that large. There's...
Offsides
Icing
Penalties (tripping, hooking, holding, roughing, boarding, charging, fighting, delay of game, too many men on ice, and high-sticking).
The basic rules are to not get a penalty, and you must score to win. Simple as most.
**I'm not saying you're wrong, I was just correcting your statement about hockey.**
You need to learn how a sport is played before you try and analyze it.
its funny because you seem to know rugby so well, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve
With another ruby voter, though, I'm hoping you'll post a video of a rugby hit that is harder than a hockey hit. Just one.
the one thing i will not argue with is that Hockey moves at a faster pace due to skating on ice. that being said, its pure physics that a hockey hit will be harder than a hit between 2 objects moving at a slower pace.. so with that, i hope you understand that a rugby hit will never be 'harder' than hockey hit since we are not capable of reaching your speeds and therefor I will not be able to produce such evidence that you request.
take away those skates and lowering your speed, however, and your hits become less brutal. for the record, fights do break out in rugby games, but are immediatly broken up. the way you fight in rugby, is behind the ref's back, and therefor, without the audience seeing as well. Let me give you an example from my game i played today:
the ball was poorly passed as my team mate was hit, and i dove to the ground to cut it off from the defense so my team could ruck me. While on the ground, the defender had me in a head lock, blocking off my air supply (HIGHLY ILLEGAL) his fist or wrist slammed into my nose during it, so my nose started bleeding. consider him tagged. After witnessing what happened, myself and the 14 other members of my team were OUTRAGED, and that guy had a ****** day. He was the other hooker, so during scrums, my team's hooker kneed him in the stomach on every engage. In a ruck, i moved my hand to his face and gouged him in the eyes. I even watched my team mate take his cleats and step on his face later in the game. None of which would happned if this guy didnt blatently put me in a head lock before. From t here, it only gets worse (not from the original play i mentioned) A guy on their side broke a rib or 2, and my hand was stomped and after hours of icing it, is still swolen and puffy and i cant even see my ring or pinky finger knuckles.
I dont see how you can say the toughest sport is the one with the 'HARDEST' hit. i have never played organized hockey, much like you have never played organized rugby. but, unlike you and your rugby watching, i have watched PLENTY of hockey, and allthough i dont understand all the rules, i do know what i see. As stated in my origional, i take nothing away from hockey in the least.
Also, i read this whole thread, and i remember you saying something about a guy getting a cut, going to the locker room, getting stitched up and going back out in the next period or something.. Let me fill you in on how it happens in rugby
First off, in rugby, there are no open subs. You cant leave and come back, UNLESS there is blood involved. A guy on my team, we called aussie mike, got a gash on his head. he ran off the pitch with a blood soaked jersey, they dumped water on his head to clean the wound, through some gause and tape around it, handed him a new jersey, and he ran right back onto the pitch. after the game, he went to the hospital and got 8 stitches... AFTER the game.
you get hit in hockey, and thats it, moving on to the next play. you get hit in rugby, and then you curl up into the fetal position, cover your head, and just HOPE your team gets to you first because that will cause the least possible pain. if the other team gets there.. the one rule in rugby that is usually over looked is now in place.. and that is.. if you're on the ground, you ARE the ground. that means they can step on you, trample over you..and trust me, they do.. and they take advantage of it. They dig their cleats into your back and scrape down, kick you in the head, you name it. Heres a picture i took about a week after i got cleated in a game:
after you're tackled, there will be about 6 other players dog piled on top of you, all mangled. this is when your arms get pulled in directions they arnt meant, cheap shots are taken, and wind gets knocked out of you.
Last thing i want to bring up right now is what happens to you in a scrum. its 8 players vs 8 players. Im not sure how much most scrums weigh up to, but im pretty sure mine is around average, and ill estimate it at about 1300-1400 lbs of human flesh.bone.muscle. and the like. they line up in a formation of 3 rows. the front row all bind together with the 2 guys behind them binding together and then to the front row, all to form one unit. the other 3 all bind in fairly loosely. on ENGAGE, our 1400 lb mass COLLIDES with the other teams 1400 lb mass like ---><--- that. if the front row slips up and their head doesnt get down, their neck can snap. so you have your side pushing and struggleing to try and gain some yardage while the other team's pack is going against you doing the same thing. the concept is very simple.. the strongest team will most likely win. heres what it looks like:
just imaging what it does to your back, let alone the amount of force from the 1400 lb pack slamming into the shoulders of the people in the front row...talk about a stiff neck after the game... and these happen more often than face offs... and think of all the energy you use to try and move a 1400 lb mass
I can go on and on, but much like im sure its true with hockey, if you dont step foot on a rugby pitch, you will NEVER know for sure what we go through. But unlike you, i know plenty of people who play hockey, and i know on a second hand basis what they go through and what happens during games. Do me a favor, find a local rugby game (saturdays, and every area has a union in this country) and go watch it first hand. you wont CRINGE for the most part because compared to hits in hockey, they arnt as HARD... but get on the pitch and take a hit, get rucked, pack down in a scrum, lift a jumper for a line out, and try mauling.. then come back and tell me hockey is more difficult. please.
You need to learn how a sport is played before you try and analyze it. I've never seen someone describe hockey in such a way as you just have.
Getting information from a friend who is in a random league isn't the best way.
With another ruby voter, though, I'm hoping you'll post a video of a rugby hit that is harder than a hockey hit. Just one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Force
To correct you...
1.) Hockey is 3 periods with 20 minutes each (not including any overtimes and shootouts that may occur). They sub because it's a team effort and have short shifts because it gets tiring fast.
2.) With the rules and concepts that hockey has, of course there are defensemen and offensmen and goalies. It doesn't mean they HAVE to play that position, it just means it's their strength. Numerous d-men play offense all the time, and the other way as well.
3.) Every tried getting a puck out of the corner with two defensemen on you? It's pretty damned hard. Getting a ball roughly the size of a human head from someone is a tad easier than something the size of a puck. Again, hockey is around an hour long, not including intermissions, stoppages (fights, offsides, faceoffs, etc). And running is actually more tiring than skating, so it just shows you've never tried it.
4.) Ever seen an open-ice hit before? It means players have to keep their heads up so they don't get hit, and that takes skill while puck handling.
5.) Pads are used in hockey because the momentum from the skates is much higher than running, as well as the puck and ice is harder than grass. Not to mention the rink is surrounded by boards with plexi-glass.
6.) There are actually 4 refs in hockey. Two linesmen that watch for offsides and two head refs that call penalties and watch the goal lines. Cheaps shots don't happen often in hockey because of the refs and cheapshots cause teams to lose games.
7.) The amount of rules in hockey really isn't that large. There's...
Offsides
Icing
Penalties (tripping, hooking, holding, roughing, boarding, charging, fighting, delay of game, too many men on ice, and high-sticking).
The basic rules are to not get a penalty, and you must score to win. Simple as most.
**I'm not saying you're wrong, I was just correcting your statement about hockey.**
I'm pretty neutral about Rugby vs. Hockey... I know nothing about rugby so I'm not going to judge it. Here is a comparison video in hockey's defense though.
Sense I'm too tired to go on about it...I'll bring up one point
Being hit and having your head lash back and hit the ice, with a helmet, doesn't hurt as much as having your bear head whiplashing onto the ground.
If I feel like it, I'll go into it more tomorrow.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Irish.Kin-
Dear God,
Thank you for blessing us football fans that cheer for teams with human quarterbacks the opportunity to actually have something other than Tom Brady to talk about for the next 17 weeks of our lives. It is such a thoughtful thing for you to remove Tom Brady from the equation and give some lucky team the chance to go to the Super Bowl not being the underdog.
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