Vote BUSH/CHENEY 2004 -- Here's why...

[reclinerace]

how true my friend how true.
o'reilly what do you think?

[OTTER]

Well, you guys have yourself in quite a pickle then.

Your not helping you're country by killing half of your forces....I'm sure more of these terrorist groups will come and continue to fight back when you think you've got everything under control, they will probably keep coming and coming.

[reclinerace]

1,000 while a very undesirable number is far from half our forces.

[OTTER]

Still way too many. Don't say it was unavoidable, because you had the option of just NOT going in Iraq. Im done with this subject, you Americans only see one side here....so single minded that what you did was the right thing. This time I'm truly done

[AL GIORDINO]

Hey guys, go to page 3, scroll down and read my entire post.

I'd like to hear from anyone who reads that and disagrees with what I said.

[reclinerace]

AL GIORDINO
yolu have posted one of the most well thought and somewhat funny post i have ever read. we americans may be singleminded, but what about the rest of the world,hmmm? If the rest of teh world was GOOD enought to stand up and defend peopel who are murdered and killed and rpaed everyday they would have gone into iraq with us. Kudos to those coutnries smart enough to help us remove saddam.
WAS THAT GOOD ENOUGH??
COME ON LIBERALS BRING IT ON!

[DaKilla]

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

Hey guys, go to page 3, scroll down and read my entire post.

I'd like to hear from anyone who reads that and disagrees with what I said.

Disagreed.

You overestimate everything; we are not even near a utopia. I'm not even going to get into this now. I'll just leave it at: I don't think the U.S. is as great as any of you perceive it, and on the thing about Democracy..

I read a good article today explaining how worthless one vote is with the Electoral College. You don't vote in your President! If you want a Democracy, convince the government to remove the Electoral College. There are far too many problems with politics in the U.S. for it to be a Utopia. Articles are out there, just do a search; I think you'll see that we are far from perfect.

Also, I read another genius article about the chances of America falling into an economic recession. It claimed there was an eighty percent chance of the government failing (money-wise) in the next five years. There's something to consider.

[AL GIORDINO]

Well you have a right to disagree. That right there is nice in and of itself isn't it? In the past, in many countries, you could be killed for disagreeing with a King or a leader. What is most of history comprised of? WAR. Yeah it would be real great to live in the 19th, or 18th, or 17th century, 1000 BC, 3000 BC, etc etc
No, on second thought, it wouldn't be all that great. Nobody lived to a ripe old age in perfect peace. You worked your a$$ off just to survive. War and struggle was a constant reality for the majority of people.

But aside from that, the bottom line is all the things we have to be thankful for are a result of the free market system, ie Democracy. The free market system is the most efficient mechanism that mankind has invented. I believe Einstein said it best when he said "the best invetion is not the wheel, or bread, but compound interest." Everyone does what is best for them, and by doing so, your doing the best thing for everyone as a whole.

You don't think we live in a Utopia? Better read your history boy. If you were part of any other generation in history, you'd have a hell of a harder life. Half our grandparents friends were killed in WWII. Imagine if you lived in Europe during that time. A good number of our parents friends were killed in Vietnam. Life before the 20th Century and America, was tough, and not at all pleasant. I think any of our ancestors, besides maybe our parents and grandparents, would look at what we have an be in awe. Our biggest problem is OBESITY, how ridiculous is that.

You really need to think a little bit more about all the things you have to be thankful for, and how our past generations had nothing close to the things we have. There were no video games or amusement parks. Yeah I never said Democracy, its PERFECT, but this world is the closest we've ever come. You attack America, you can put down the electoral college, you can say our government is going to go bankrupt, but you can't say that this civilization isn't the best thing EVER on Earth. When I refer to civilization, I'm referring to all civilized nations, not just the US. Most the entire world has it easy nowadays, imo. And that's why Muslims are discontent. They see their oil, their wealth, their produce, shipped elsewhere. They are pissed because they aren't getting their fair share of the world's wealth. They honestly think there is a Jewish American conspiracy to rape their land of all the wealth and resources. But look at what we are doing, we are actually spending money to bring them into the wealth of freedom and democracy.

BTW, did you know the Canadian total national defecit is about 2.5x what the total defecit of the USA is? Yep. Don't talk about the USA going broke. We can never go broke because we can print all the money we want. The value of money, the national defecit, your bank account, the stock market, all that is a delicate illusion, that allows us to build our world and economies at 3-5% a year. There's no real value in a briefcase full of paper.

I am a son of the American Revolution and proud of it. My ancestor William Graham fought the English, and we can thank him and all the soldiers like him. I am living this great life, because of men like him, and I am thankful. Without him, I wouldn't be sitting here in my office in a plush leather chair, typing on a goddamn computer. I wouldn't be driving home in my new 0-60 in 5.8 seconds Chrysler Crossfire. I wouldn't be flying to the Caribbean to take a vacation. I'd probably be slaving my butt off in a field right now, or dead from some crazy disease or war. During the revolution, we had terrorists, guys loyal to England. Only then we called them 'torries'. And I sincerely believe that one day in the future, Iraqi's will look back at their Patriots in this time, and thank them for doing what had to be done, to secure the peace and freedom for the future generations.

Anyway feel free to disagree. But when you do so, remember, your exercising a right that democracy established.

To Reclinerance:
Well said, I don't really know what to say. Even countries that haven't come to Iraq..every free country has modeled their government after ours. Canada, France, England, Germany, Russia, Spain, blah blah blah.. Democracy and the free market has triumphed every place it has gone, because once people get that taste, and realize it can be different and BETTER, there's no turning back. They want more and more and more. It happened when England established Parlaiment, it happened when the Berlin wall crumbled, China is now a free market system!!! Cuba won't be a communist country forever, in fact, yesterday they had to put a 10% tax on American Dollars because that's all the people there want to use! You get the point.

[reclinerace]

once agian you post a good, well informed, very American post!!
Keep up the good work AL.

[DaKilla]

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

Well you have a right to disagree. That right there is nice in and of itself isn't it? In the past, in many countries, you could be killed for disagreeing with a King or a leader. What is most of history comprised of? WAR. Yeah it would be real great to live in the 19th, or 18th, or 17th century, 1000 BC, 3000 BC, etc etc

This is what I've been saying all along. You're trying to turn my own point against me? Won't turn out too well for anyone that actually read my last replies.

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

No, on second thought, it wouldn't be all that great. Nobody lived to a ripe old age in perfect peace. You worked your a$$ off just to survive. War and struggle was a constant reality for the majority of people.

With that logic, everyone is always living in a Utopia. The people of 200 hundred years ago had it better than the cavemen. That means that they also let perfect lives. You're not making sense here, sorry.

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

But aside from that, the bottom line is all the things we have to be thankful for are a result of the free market system, ie Democracy. The free market system is the most efficient mechanism that mankind has invented. I believe Einstein said it best when he said "the best invetion is not the wheel, or bread, but compound interest." Everyone does what is best for them, and by doing so, your doing the best thing for everyone as a whole.

The free market is called Capitalism, not Democracy. Obviously you are the one that needs to go back into your classes. We could run a socialistic society and still have a free market; trust me, Democracy does not equal a free market. Plus, we don't have a true democracy established in the US, so what's your point?

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

You don't think we live in a Utopia? Better read your history boy. If you were part of any other generation in history, you'd have a hell of a harder life. Half our grandparents friends were killed in WWII. Imagine if you lived in Europe during that time. A good number of our parents friends were killed in Vietnam. Life before the 20th Century and America, was tough, and not at all pleasant. I think any of our ancestors, besides maybe our parents and grandparents, would look at what we have an be in awe. Our biggest problem is OBESITY, how ridiculous is that.

Who are you calling boy? You don't know anything about me, and if I weren't as nice a person I am, and believe in true democracy and personal freedoms, I would ban you right there just for making a mockery of my posts. Once again, same point I made earlier: if you think of it that way, every generation has lived a Utopic life.

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

You really need to think a little bit more about all the things you have to be thankful for, and how our past generations had nothing close to the things we have. There were no video games or amusement parks. Yeah I never said Democracy, its PERFECT, but this world is the closest we've ever come. You attack America, you can put down the electoral college, you can say our government is going to go bankrupt, but you can't say that this civilization isn't the best thing EVER on Earth. When I refer to civilization, I'm referring to all civilized nations, not just the US. Most the entire world has it easy nowadays, imo. And that's why Muslims are discontent. They see their oil, their wealth, their produce, shipped elsewhere. They are pissed because they aren't getting their fair share of the world's wealth. They honestly think there is a Jewish American conspiracy to rape their land of all the wealth and resources. But look at what we are doing, we are actually spending money to bring them into the wealth of freedom and democracy.

Yeah, nice rambling on, I don't feel like commenting other than: there's no point to that statement. What do I have to be thankful for? Nothing, quite frankly. Nobody is doing me any favors out of the goodness of their hearts. The only reason anyone does anything these days is if there's something in it for them: shows how well capitalism and democracy work. And if you're going to bash the idea of socialism and what-not, let me ask you one question: Do you beleive in giving charity? That's redistributing wealth, good thing you didn't get caught doing that back during the Red Scare, you would have been thrown in jail. (Since you are SOOOO much older than me that you can call me "boy")

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

BTW, did you know the Canadian total national defecit is about 2.5x what the total defecit of the USA is? Yep. Don't talk about the USA going broke. We can never go broke because we can print all the money we want. The value of money, the national defecit, your bank account, the stock market, all that is a delicate illusion, that allows us to build our world and economies at 3-5% a year. There's no real value in a briefcase full of paper.

And now conversation goes to Canada? I don't care what the Canadian defecit is, I'm not a Canadian citizen. I realize there's no value to any of the money unless the government is willing to give something for it, and that's exactly what this article stated. The government will not be able to sustain itself in a matter of years. And you can mark my words: Unless there is radical change in the United States, we will see the fall of another great empire.

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

I am a son of the American Revolution and proud of it. My ancestor William Graham fought the English, and we can thank him and all the soldiers like him. I am living this great life, because of men like him, and I am thankful. Without him, I wouldn't be sitting here in my office in a plush leather chair, typing on a goddamn computer. I wouldn't be driving home in my new 0-60 in 5.8 seconds Chrysler Crossfire. I wouldn't be flying to the Caribbean to take a vacation. I'd probably be slaving my butt off in a field right now, or dead from some crazy disease or war. During the revolution, we had terrorists, guys loyal to England. Only then we called them 'torries'. And I sincerely believe that one day in the future, Iraqi's will look back at their Patriots in this time, and thank them for doing what had to be done, to secure the peace and freedom for the future generations.

Ok, good for you being a son of the American Revolution, do you think anyone cares? Do you really think that everything technologically advanced is because of the US? I know they teach this in schools, but I thought adults would be a bit smarted.

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

Anyway feel free to disagree. But when you do so, remember, your exercising a right that democracy established.

Once again, trying to use my own argument against me, it's not going to fly.

Originally Posted by AL GIORDINO

To Reclinerance:
Well said, I don't really know what to say. Even countries that haven't come to Iraq..every free country has modeled their government after ours. Canada, France, England, Germany, Russia, Spain, blah blah blah.. Democracy and the free market has triumphed every place it has gone, because once people get that taste, and realize it can be different and BETTER, there's no turning back. They want more and more and more. It happened when England established Parlaiment, it happened when the Berlin wall crumbled, China is now a free market system!!! Cuba won't be a communist country forever, in fact, yesterday they had to put a 10% tax on American Dollars because that's all the people there want to use! You get the point.

You want me to start naming countries the democratic system has failed in? There are about 30 of them in the Middle East alone, so this could go on all day. It isn't a perfect system, and you know it.

By the way, do you know why Germany has a democracy? Because after World War II, the US forced it on them, similiar to they way they are doing it in Iraq. Do you know why Germany still uses the system? Because it is still in debt from World War I, and needs to support of other countries (the US) so it can survive. That is possibly the biggest reason it hasn't faltered here, either.