"Sicko" Michael Moore

BoyEngland · 07-05-2007

The only problem with moving to another country to get health care is sometimes they know you are doing it, and it is actually illegal.

My Uncle moved to a Spanish Island a few years ago, and every few months he has to spend a few weeks in other places to prove he didn't move there just to evade the UK taxes. Same goes for the health care, if he were to go to England for treatment and he had been living somewhere else for so long, they would think that he was basically using the NHS (National Health Service) to gain free health care, which is in itself tax evasion. He is indeed still paying into the system so is not committing a crime.

The American health care system is a joke though, one of my Dad's employees used our address as his home on some medical paperwork (didn't have a house), and he moved back to PA because of a court case. We are still receiving his bills even though he left over a year ago but nothing has been done by them to get the payments. There is a way around the system, but it will catch up with you eventually.

SoggyMilk · 07-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyEngland

The only problem with moving to another country to get health care is sometimes they know you are doing it, and it is actually illegal.

The American health care system is a joke though, one of my Dad's employees used our address as his home on some medical paperwork (didn't have a house), and he moved back to PA because of a court case. We are still receiving his bills even though he left over a year ago but nothing has been done by them to get the payments. There is a way around the system, but it will catch up with you eventually.

England, do yourself, and your uncle a favor, and delete everything pertaining him from your post.

BoyEngland · 07-05-2007

I found the movie on FileFront right after your last post.

I have got to say, it's the best documentary I have ever seen!

His attitude in it characterises the sheltered views of Americans, not because of their own fault, but because of the US government not letting people know this country has a failing health system.

A lot of what he saw in France even surprised me. The best bit was the "government employed nanny", I couldn't believe it!

The woman who said she got 6 months off work paid and 6 months unpaid wasn't even telling of the best part of childbirth in England. A new thing came into effect some time ago where the mother gets 6 months paid off work, and then the dad gets the same right after her. Seems the government realised that a mother is not the only key figure in a child's life. Both parents can have the other 6 months off unpaid but why bother, you need the cash!

I think the movie was put together very well, first showing the easiest options for Americans, and then progressively showing the extremes in that he had to resort to the Cuban system for the 9/11 hero's. Even the credits in the movie provided more information than the US government ever would, providing a link to a site dedicated to finding random Canadians to marry for their free health care.

I don't think I have ever seen a Michael Moore movie before, but I am glad I saw this one.

PS: Is it me or does FileFront take forever to download? I was downloading the movie the whole time I was streaming it and its only 36% done, running at 35KB/S at best. I will probably watch it on the plane in hopes I have something to do incase they show the new Harry Potter movie.

Scuba Steve · 07-06-2007

The Cuban segment is a joke. I did not see the movie, but I heard quite a bit on this part.

I'm sure none of you took the time to really think about the Cuban segment. You all took what was being shown for truth, without questioning it.

Do you really think all Cubans get that kind of treatment? Wrong. Cuba reconized the great opportunity that Moore presented to them. They would treat the Americans with the highest care possible, thus shining a positive light on their country. Regular Cubans do not get the same treatment.

Plus, other countries shown in the film may have free health care, but you pay in other, very important ways. The waiting is horrendous and you are not treated with the best equipment. Here, you do not have to wait and you are treated with the best equipment.

I'm not saying our health care is great, I know it's not. However, it's not as bad as Moore says it is. I think the government needs to realize that health care is a service, not a business.

SoggyMilk · 07-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba Steve

The Cuban segment is a joke. I did not see the movie, but I heard quite a bit on this part.

I'm sure none of you took the time to really think about the Cuban segment. You all took what was being shown for truth, without questioning it.

Do you really think all Cubans get that kind of treatment? Wrong. Cuba reconized the great opportunity that Moore presented to them. They would treat the Americans with the highest care possible, thus shining a positive light on their country. Regular Cubans do not get the same treatment.

Plus, other countries shown in the film may have free health care, but you pay in other, very important ways. The waiting is horrendous and you are not treated with the best equipment. Here, you do not have to wait and you are treated with the best equipment.

I'm not saying our health care is great, I know it's not. However, it's not as bad as Moore says it is. I think the government needs to realize that health care is a service, not a business.

Ok, well I took what Moore had to say because he's well known, and he has shown me something that I can see on video.

So please, show me on video the ginormous wait times, the horrible equipment, and the other, very important ways that other people have to pay.

Scuba Steve · 07-06-2007

If you're asking me to travel around the world and videotape people waiting in a lobby, which you are, you're crazy

I wasn't directing my post to anyone in particular.

If 50 Cent said "Jihad is the way to go" would you believe him just because he is "well known?" I don't think so. To believe what someone says because they are well known is far beyond arrogant.

People for this film have already given sources of wait times.

dansdarkside · 07-06-2007

They pay for their health care with high taxes. And in Canada when they moved to the Health care they have they had a migration of doctors leaving and coming to the states.

I have not seen the movie yet but I plan to.

BoyEngland · 07-06-2007

I understand we pay for it in the important ways you say, but we aren't billed for thousands of [insert currency] at the end. Our "payment" is spread across our entire life in a tax-like format. This makes it easier on us because face it, not many people put aside thousands in their bank just in case something happens to their health and they have to pay for it, under the "free" system, we are forced to do this in a way that does not make us sell our house in the process; we pay small fees every month rather than a huge lump sum at each accident/issue.

The waiting times are not a huge deal. Yes there are sometimes people left for hours in a corridor on a stretcher, but they are not severe cases. Everyone is dealt with on a basis of severity. Is it fair for someone with a broken arm to get treatment before a guy who is having a heart attack and needs CPR just to stay alive? They are both paying equal taxes, they should be dealt with not on levels of wealth, but on their medical issues.

Equipment is barely different than what you probably see in your hospitals. I have been through 2 surgeries and I'm still here with no problems because the equipment was bad or anything like that. I am fine, whats the problem?

Of course you aren't talking about a specific place, I am, but I don't see how you can openly argue against the systems of other countries when it's clear in the video that the US has a bad system itself. Yes others may have faults and the US system may not be as bad as the video makes out, but I have only seen one person in my life sent away from an English hospital that I was pissed about. A guy came in with his finger hanging off and they sent him to another nearby hospital (in an ambulance, not a taxi) because they specialized in amputations and whatever its called to re-attach it at the other place.

The Cuban part was just funny, It was obvious there was something out of place with how easily he got the area surround the bay area, and also how easily he could view and touch prescription medication.

SoggyMilk · 07-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba Steve

If you're asking me to travel around the world and videotape people waiting in a lobby, which you are, you're crazy

I wasn't directing my post to anyone in particular.

If 50 Cent said "Jihad is the way to go" would you believe him just because he is "well known?" I don't think so. To believe what someone says because they are well known is far beyond arrogant.

People for this film have already given sources of wait times.

Overstate, much?

Yes, Scuba, you unveiled my evil plan, to get you, a pleb to go on a mysterious journey arount the world to satiate my everlasting need to see media of someone waiting in a hospital room.

</sarcasm>

SHOW me these wait times, SHOW me these under-privileged people getting sub-par treatment, SHOW me proof of what you've stated!

"To believe what someone says because they are well known is far beyond arrogant."

Arrogance: Having a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.

Because a person believes what someone else said based on their notoriety, that in turn causes that person to be regarded as.... having a sense of overbearing self-worth?

If you had an overbearing sense of self worth, then you wouldn't listen to what anyone else said, you'd simply believe that you were right all the time...

BoyEngland · 07-07-2007

Soggy, I agree with some of what you say, but I wouldn't bother arguing your point. No one really reads entire posts on here anymore, they just read the parts they can use to create an argument.

Moving on...

I think this is one of the easiest accessible movies online ever, I want to know why.

Moore gave a preview (or full show?) to DC before the official release, so this could be what triggered the early release.

Other people think Moore did it himself to some how boost the number of people going to see the movie in theatres. I find this one difficult to believe though.

There are also people trying to trace the original piracy of the movie, so why the hell would Moore do it himself? Some people are just retarded.

Unless Moore had a very good excuse or I am missing something, I think the first option is the only way. Whoever did it deserves a

because a lot of people probably woke up to the fact that no health care system is perfect, not a single one. (For those who didn't wake up to that, they need hot water pouring on their face so they wake up and have to endure the system personally)