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Old 09-13-2007   #1
 
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Teacher demands to carry gun in school
Here's another hot topic. This recently showed up in my weekly newspaper this week. I think it would be kind of stupid to allow it though due to the fact it could lead to bigger problem like depressed kids knocking down the English teacher and messing up the whole school for the rest of the year.

On the other hand it could've prevented helpless people's death at Columbine or Virginia Tech massacres.

Dunno... I'm in the grey area of this black and white situation (Figuratively speaking of course)

http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/118949018187870.xml&coll=7


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Oregonian
Teacher demands to carry gun in school

Untested in court - Oregon law says a woman can have a concealed Glock; Medford district policy says not at work
Tuesday, September 11, 2007PETER SLEETH and BETSY HAMMOND
The Oregonian
A Medford high school teacher is arguing she has the right to carry a concealed semiautomatic pistol to her classes to protect herself from a violent ex-husband in a case certain to set off alarm bells in schools across the state.
In a standoff with the Medford School District, the 44-year-old teacher may go to court this week to ask a judge to allow her to carry a Glock 19 9 mm pistol to school.
There is no appellate law in Oregon that would cover this situation. Under Oregon law, people with concealed handgun licenses can carry guns into public buildings.
What is murky in the law is whether school districts can stop employees from carrying concealed weapons onto school property. Most Oregon schools have policies against employees -- and in some cases the general public -- carrying concealed weapons onto their property.
A lawsuit by the teacher could serve to clear the matter.
"I was shocked when I heard this was an issue," Tim Gerking, attorney for the Medford School District, said Monday.
At her request, The Oregonian is not identifying the teacher because she is a domestic violence victim. She did agree to be interviewed anonymously, however.
The woman said she has had a concealed handgun license for about three years but would not say whether she had carried the gun to school.
When confronted by school authorities in May, "They asked me if I was carrying then and there," she said. "I said no. My administrator told me . . . that if they had any reason to suspect I was I would be searched, I would be arrested and the board would take action against me."
The teacher said she is a longtime member of the National Rifle Association. Her legal bills are being paid for by a foundation of the Oregon Firearms Federation.
Medford School Superintendent Phil Long verified Monday that the teacher has told school officials she is not currently carrying her gun. The teacher says she knew of other Medford teachers who had concealed handgun licenses but told officials she did not know whether they carried guns.
Oregon law is clear that holders of concealed handgun licenses can carry concealed weapons into schools. Medford officials maintain the teacher is not committing a crime if she carries the gun but would violate district policy if she brought the gun into school.
"If an employee violates our policy, it isn't a crime," Gerking said. "We just have the right to restrict our employees from carrying dangerous weapons on school property" as a matter of policy.
James E. Leuenberger, a Lake Oswego attorney representing the teacher, said the school board's policy conflicts with state law, which allows anyone with a valid concealed handgun license to carry a gun in a public school building.
"State law is crystal clear," he said. "State law says a person with a concealed weapon permit can carry a concealed weapon in a public building."
The Medford teacher has a restraining order against her ex-husband, whom she divorced last year, according to Jackson County Circuit Court records. Those records show the teacher has accused her former husband of hitting her and threatening to kill her numerous times.
In a filing for a restraining order in September 2006, the teacher wrote that her former husband told her he would "kill me and that I would never get a cent out of him." At the time, she said he drove by her house four times one night and made repeated, daily phone calls to her. The teacher has two children.
Similar district policies
Some school districts have more expansive policies than Medford.
Portland, Tigard-Tualatin, Lake Oswego, Vancouver and other large Portland-area school districts make it a rule that no one except police can bring guns onto school property. Even if those rules are unenforceable, they're on the books and school personnel act as if they count.
"We don't allow firearms of any sort in our buildings, no matter who you are," said Matt Shelby, a spokesman for Portland Public Schools.
Others, including Gresham-Barlow, have the same policy as Medford, specifying that as a condition of their employment, staff and contractors can't bring concealed weapons onto school property.
Rebekah Cook, attorney for the Oregon School Boards Association, says districts are on sound legal footing when they prohibit employees from bringing concealed weapons to work, even when they have a legal permit to do so.
In a 2001 case against Washington County, the Oregon Employment Relations Board ruled that the state's concealed weapons law does not prohibit a public agency from making no guns at work a condition of employment.
"An employer . . . retains the right to address its unique concerns with its employees' possession of firearms," the board ruled.
But Cook concedes it is ultimately an "unsettled area of law," having never gone to the Oregon Supreme Court.
Sen. Ginny Burdick, D-Portland, who strongly opposes guns in schools, says, "On the face of the law, it certainly looks . . . that if you have a concealed handgun license, you can basically take your gun wherever you want, except federal buildings or through airport security."
A North Clackamas School District janitor who sued the district after it fired him in 1999 for bringing a concealed weapon to campus brought what was expected to be a test case in 2000. Custodian Greg King had sought back pay and restoration to his job but got neither after dropping his case after a few months. King dropped his suit after the district pointed out that a concealed handgun license allows the holder to carry a gun hidden on his body, whereas King left his semiautomatic weapon in a backpack in an elementary school's elevator.
Portland Public Schools has a rule that no one can bring a concealed weapon on its property, even though the district has been forced to acknowledge state law trumps its rule. That was proven when a parent brought three guns to a Lincoln High School football game in 1999. School security officers were outraged and took him into custody. But ultimately the district conceded the law was on his side.
Kevin Starrett, executive director of the Oregon Firearms Federation, said his organization has sought in the past to clarify gun laws on Oregon's college campuses without success. The issue of public employment and the right to carry a gun remains unresolved, he said.
The Medford teacher contacted the federation seeking advice and help. At first, Starrett said, it attempted to resolve the matter out of court by contacting the district, but a courtroom showdown is increasingly likely.
Burdick, who opposes the state mandate to let concealed handgun license holders bring guns to school, has backed legislation to let schools bar concealed weapons from campus -- but has gotten few lawmakers to vote her way.
Burdick said fear of the National Rifle Association, not public opinion, is what causes Oregon lawmakers to kill the idea year after year.
"It's just ludicrous to allow guns in schools under any circumstances," she says. "There are regular common-sense gun owners who overwhelmingly want the local school board to at least be able to make their own decision on this at the local level. Most of the parents I talked to had no idea, and they were horrified when they found out it was possible to bring a gun to school. . . . Johnny's parents don't want his first-grade teachers packing heat."
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Old 09-13-2007   #2
 
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I remember a while back a teacher in one of the buffalo schools got shot by her husband in school. So I guess she wishes she would have thought of that first.

But I don't think they shouldn't allow her to carry a gun. They should have good enough security to make sure no outsiders are allowed in the school w/o permission.
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Old 09-13-2007   #3
 
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Security doesn't do much. If someone is intent on murder they shoot right thorugh cops. The students will not even know she is carrying a pistol as some are small enough to fit in a pocket but powerful enough to stop a determined assailant. In a news article I read on a site, she showed a pistol that fit in the palm of her hand. Many of you unaware that in 48 states a trained and certified person at leat 21 years old may carry a concealed weapon. Do you see gunfights every day?
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Old 09-14-2007   #4
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I feel bad for this woman, because she certainly sounds as if she's living in fear every second of the day, and probably will for the rest of her life.

However, having a concealed weapon in a classroom has an exponential amount of risk associated with it.

Whether it is legal or not shouldn't really matter. If it's against school policy, then they still have the right to take action against her if she does.
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Old 09-14-2007   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teqila View Post
Security doesn't do much. If someone is intent on murder they shoot right thorugh cops. The students will not even know she is carrying a pistol as some are small enough to fit in a pocket but powerful enough to stop a determined assailant. In a news article I read on a site, she showed a pistol that fit in the palm of her hand. Many of you unaware that in 48 states a trained and certified person at leat 21 years old may carry a concealed weapon. Do you see gunfights every day?
Was anyone talking about gunfights? Yea know, I am really starting to get the feeling that ever since you have played Socom you have been very very fascinated by guns and really need to jump off of Ted Nugent's ****.

It does not matter if the students know or don't know. A school is a place of education. And it sure as hell wont help her if her husband is standing at the door with his gun pointed at her and she has to undo a lock on her desk just to get her purse out just to take out the gun.

If she really feared for her life that much why not just move? Sounds retarded that she would cause all this trouble just to be able to carry a gun in a SCHOOL where she should be worried about whether she prepared her students for the test, instead of if her husband is coming today, or the next. When she could have moved across the country. Instead of living in fear everyday.
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Old 09-14-2007   #6
 
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I'm alittle confused about this. Im not sure about other states but in New york the state controls the schools, If it is the same there would it be a state law that prohibits her from taking it in. Correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 09-14-2007   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansdarkside View Post
Was anyone talking about gunfights? Yea know, I am really starting to get the feeling that ever since you have played Socom you have been very very fascinated by guns and really need to jump off of Ted Nugent's ****.

It does not matter if the students know or don't know. A school is a place of education. And it sure as hell wont help her if her husband is standing at the door with his gun pointed at her and she has to undo a lock on her desk just to get her purse out just to take out the gun.

If she really feared for her life that much why not just move? Sounds retarded that she would cause all this trouble just to be able to carry a gun in a SCHOOL where she should be worried about whether she prepared her students for the test, instead of if her husband is coming today, or the next. When she could have moved across the country. Instead of living in fear everyday.
You're too immature to consider another viewpoint without replying with slander. Leave it be if it bothers you that much. Expressing a point calmly, even if you don't totally agree with it, is part of a decent debate. I typed nothing personal and name-calling because of a factual statement is not something I support.
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Old 09-14-2007   #8
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I've received complaints about some of the b.s. namecalling and other crap that's going on in this thread... let's keep it on topic, people.

Pleaseandthankyou.
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Old 09-14-2007   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansdarkside View Post
If she really feared for her life that much why not just move?

It's not that simple when you have kids to pack up and move away. You can only legally move so far away, unless the other parent really does something wrong and looses their custody rights.
She should just keep her mouth shut and keep a gun stashed in her car and leave it up to school security to do the rest. Is there not a Cop stationed at every School ???
Show me a Husband that hasn't threatened to kill his estranged soon to be divorced wife and I'll be surprised.

Nice read though I'm very familiar with all the areas they mentioned, Tigard , Lake Oswego, Clakamas . My nephews go to High School at Wilson High in Portland.
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Old 09-14-2007   #10
 
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I read in one article where the school was a high school, being in Medford OR and being a graduate of South Medford High school and knowing that there re only twohigh schools ATM in Medford it either has to be North or South Medford High. I don't know much about North MEdford, but I did spend 4 years at South. They do have one campus cop that patrols SMHS and he get's to carry a pistol around the school (Unless the district recently changed it). They have like a total of 3 security cameras that watch the outside of the school. Also it's a fairly big campus, I'm sure someone could sneak in unnoticed if they wanted to.

I'm sure if it comes down to it. I'm sure the teacher could at least carry a stun gun.
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Teacher demands to carry gun in school


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