Video Game Forums

Go Back   Video Game Forums > Miscellaneous > Older Threads

Older Threads This is where most of our older threads are located. These threads can still be replied to.


We Need A Clear Explanation - Post Only If You Know What Your Talking About! 18+
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-17-2006   #1
 
Captain Wade's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Langley VA
Posts: 38


Lightbulb We Need A Clear Explanation - Post Only If You Know What Your Talking About! 18+

I urge someone who manages servers and had extensive background in the internet and information technology, to design some type of visual and explanation of how no matter what internet connection one person has, the internet superhighway is an imperfect science. Please give details of how lag occurs, and how packets work. I urge for this in hopes that people who scream "LAG!" are insulted because of their lack of knowledge on the subject!Again, I ask if you post on here you are an adult with a background in information technology to explain to the people who do not understand the intricacies of the internet superhighway why lag occurs!

POST ONLY YOU ARE AN ADULT AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

No offense kids, but this is over your heads no matter what you think!

Last edited by Captain Wade; 03-17-2006 at 02:21 PM.
Captain Wade is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006   #2
 
Simbrono's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: BEHIND YOU!
Posts: 222


NOTICE: Jerky animation (framerate) doesn't indicate lag, the usual cause of jerky animation is bad framerate. The framerate (FPS) in games can be usually increased by decreasing image quality or a lower screen resolution.


What is lag?
In a nutshell lag is usually caused by network problems further up the Internet chain. If one of the links or computers between the game's host and you is overloaded, then it will take longer for the data to get from the host computer to your computer. Sometimes packets of data go missing, and the receiving computer has to ask the sending computer to re-transmit the packet. Of course, all of this takes time which it what you percieve as 'lag'. There is never enough bandwidth available on the Internet as a whole for everyone using it to do all the things they want to do without causing some sort of delay.


Lag is also caused by the following things...


Screen resolution set too high.

Large graphic game elemets on the screen such as a boss.
Lots of graphical game elements on the screen at one time (i.e. smoke trails from rockets, explosions, characters, large maps, other players, etc.)
Using hot switching (i.e. ALT-TAB) to go between Windows and a running game.
Hosting a game and trying to play with others on the same computer.

Having a computer that just meets the minimal game requirements or insufficient system resources.
One or more programs running in the background. These programs typically include: Antivirus software, firewalls (usually those which are Windows based), instant messaging clients, spyware, email clients, scanner/printer monitoring software which may constantly poll the connected device, p2p programs such as iMesh, Edonkey, Kazaa, Morpheous...and so on.
Running an unpatched version of the game.
Poorly designed game, game map or mod.

High graphic/audio detail settings (try lowering/altering graphic and audio quality settings to improve Internet gameplay).
Overloaded or improperly configured game server; Insuffcient bandwidth on the server's end -- In other words, the server admin did not properly limit the player capacity or player data rates on the server.
Insufficient bandwidth on the player's end.
Using real-time voice communication (i.e. Roger Wilco, etc).
Other player's Internet connections (i.e. low bandwidth players: dial-up modems, satellite such as DirecPC)
Other players downloading game elements from the game server (i.e. maps, levels, character skins, texture maps, mods, etc).
...and hundreds if not thousands other things not listed here.


In short, no matter how fast your connection is there will be lag.

Tools
A tool is the Internet Traffic Report, a web site that monitors the flow of data around the world. It then displays a value between zero and 100. Higher values indicate faster and more reliable connections. You can therefore see if there are any bottlenecks or problem areas.

http://www.internettrafficreport.com


Glosasry

Screen resolution - is the number of dots (or pixels) available for use on a computer screen. The most common screen size is 1024x768; many people still use 640x480 and 800x600.


FPS (Frames Per Second) - a measure of how much information is used to store and display motion video. FPS also stands for First Person Shooter which is a game genre.


Bandwidth - is the maximum amount of data that can travel a communications path in a given time, usually measured in seconds. Think of the communications path as a pipe, the bandwidth represents the width of the pipe that determines how much data can flow through it all at once.


Latency (Lag) - is the time it takes for a computer to send a signal and be received at the other end. The internet as a network is such that it is hard to determine how your singals will get to their destination - if at all. When your computer is talking to a computer in the US for example, your singal will travel down many cable runs and through many routers even before it gets across the ocean. This invariably increases the time it takes for your singal to reach its destination, creating other problems. Like packetloss, which is caused by over-stressed routers and bad line conditions. There is a greater chance of a packet going missing the more routers your signal has to travel through. This is obviously very bad, and it could mean the difference between you winning and loosing. How do you know if your connection is good enough to play games on? You can use a ping. Ping will do just what it suggests, it will bounce a singal off the destination computer and record the time it takes to get back. This is your latency time in milliseconds. A latency time greater than around 400ms will cause serious problems with most games.

Packetloss/Packets - A packet is a unit of information that is sent over a network. When data is sent over the internet, the data is not sent in a continuous stream but is broken up into smaller manageable chunks. This is done to facilitate easier error checking and to reduce lost information. When a packet is sent, the receiver must acknowledge the sent packet before another is sent. In this way packets can be resent if they haven't reached their destination. The re-sending of packets when they are lost is a major cause of headaches when playing games over the internet. The reason most packets are lost is because your signal has to traverse too many routers, or hops as they are sometimes known, to get to their destination. If your signal has to travel through over 10 routers then gaming problems will definitely begin to be experienced.

Router - A router is a way for information to get to its destination. If a signal is sent down a cable and you wanted the next computer that sees it to push it in the right direction, you would use a router. Routers can come in all sizes, some routers will route a lot quicker and more efficiently than others. When the router can't cope with the load it will begin to discard information to keep up. This can often lead to your data needing to be resent, causing delays.

Side Note- This is also relevant to PS2. The framerate does cause lag in Socom but not is much since it is a console gaming platform but it does contribute. Ever notice that when a lot of people are in the same area it causes lag. More animations ups the framerate.

Last edited by Simbrono; 03-17-2006 at 02:29 PM.
Simbrono is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006   #3
 
Captain Wade's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Langley VA
Posts: 38


Exclamation

Thanks for your generic explanation. I am actually looking for someone who has a degree and is a professional in the information technology field. Many people, including myself, already understand what you posted. I would just like somone to explain how the internet is an imperfect science and how the internet superhighway is not perfect when gaming. Also, I think a detailed visual explanation of the path packets travel in socom, and I ask this not because packets go through ten routers as you posted, but because packets have to travel through so many servers that are clogged and how packets travel different routes. Packets are so more complex than you posted!

Last edited by Captain Wade; 03-17-2006 at 02:44 PM.
Captain Wade is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006   #4
 
Simbrono's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: BEHIND YOU!
Posts: 222


Ok Captain Wade. I work for US Cable of Coastal Texas. I have a degree in Computer System Information as well as a degree in Network Administration. If for some reason you dont believe me call 1-800-892-2904 and ask for Jason. I posted why lag occurs and what causes it. Pretty much A.You have a crappy ISP. B.To many people are playing. Packets are lost and go to out to cyberspace. Sony turns around asks for these again which causes lag. That is why if you pull your cord or have a magic switch it basically does the same thing. You temporarily lose connectivity to the internet and get it back which causes a delay. There really is no cure. Unless the entire nation goes to a docsis 3 server and is running at extreme up and download speeds this problem will always happen.
Simbrono is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006   #5
 
Captain Wade's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Langley VA
Posts: 38


Quote:
Originally Posted by Simbrono
Ok Captain Wade. I work for US Cable of Coastal Texas. I have a degree in Computer System Information as well as a degree in Network Administration. If for some reason you dont believe me call 1-800-892-2904 and ask for Jason. I posted why lag occurs and what causes it. Pretty much A.You have a crappy ISP. B.To many people are playing. Packets are lost and go to out to cyberspace. Sony turns around asks for these again which causes lag. That is why if you pull your cord or have a magic switch it basically does the same thing. You temporarily lose connectivity to the internet and get it back which causes a delay. There really is no cure. Unless the entire nation goes to a docsis 3 server and is running at extreme up and download speeds this problem will always happen.
Again, thanks for your post. In response to your packet explanation, you are correct that they get lost. I'd like to remind people reading this that packets go out and containt extermely small amounts of information. These packets are then separated from each other and can get lost, or arrive at their destinations at different times. In response to the the cure you propose, that would work; however, the internet superhighway keeps getting clogged due to everyone getting faster connections and expecting the internet to have no problems. One of the suggestions proposed by some experts is that people will one day pay to get their packets through faster, leaving others to still have problems. Until there is a revamping of the internet, there will always be lag; however, there is no reason to complain about lag unless one has a clear understanding of it, and attempts to come up with ideas to fix the system!

Thanks again Simbrono!
Captain Wade is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006   #6

 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8


Capt. Wade, I don't understand what you are asking with your post. I think Simbrono went into great detail about packets, servers, lag and other items that affect game play. If you already knew this information why did you ask. If you are making a statement--what is it?
MassMedic is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006   #7
 
Captain Wade's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Langley VA
Posts: 38


Quote:
Originally Posted by MassMedic
Capt. Wade, I don't understand what you are asking with your post. I think Simbrono went into great detail about packets, servers, lag and other items that affect game play. If you already knew this information why did you ask. If you are making a statement--what is it?
Before I respond I'd like to ask MassMedic why this post first, eh? Alright I think you know very well what I'm asking. Simbrono described the internet generically. There is this thing called the "INTERNET SUPERHIGHWAY"! I would like someone (with the experience I noted already) to explain to the Socom 3 players why lag occurs and not just in a 6th grade reading level, anyone can do that. My statement is that too many gamers complain, but do not have merit to do so. I hope this thread can illuminate how complex the Internet Superhighway is, and how people should not complain about Socom3 and it's lag, because the internet is an imperfect science! Finally, in response to why did I ask if I already knew it I state I myself do not have a degree in that field; thus, if someone with a degree in information technology who plays Socom were to state how complex internet is and how Zipper and Sony are not fully to blame for the "lag", that person's statement would be more accepted.

Last edited by Captain Wade; 03-17-2006 at 07:32 PM.
Captain Wade is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006   #8
Graphics Staff
 
discombobulate's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wethersfield, CT
Age: 20
Posts: 5,381


Send a message via AIM to discombobulate Send a message via Yahoo to discombobulate Send a message via Skype™ to discombobulate
http://www.socom3.com/showthread.php?t=29085

That's the good old "Lag and Socom 2" thread, I would assume it still applies.
__________________
And on the surface I became a normal pre-teen
More afraid of nuclear war than snake bites and bee stings
My best friend was my TV
Game shows and cartoons substituted for puppies, rainbows, and balloons
Now here I am, the shy type, and I think I'm doing alright
Considering what it was like, living my life
discombobulate is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006   #9
Senior Member
 
RadioactiveMan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 4,950


Send a message via AIM to RadioactiveMan Send a message via Skype™ to RadioactiveMan
What is the point of using more detail than people can understand? That defeats the purpose of telling people, does it not?
__________________

DaKilla: "We don't have the manpower to censor everyone's opinions."
RadioactiveMan is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2006   #10
 
socommaster's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 624


one reason for lag is a thing called "PING TIME" i hate computer illiterate people...not saying you are or anything. Most people should know these things by now
socommaster is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


We Need A Clear Explanation - Post Only If You Know What Your Talking About! 18+


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO