Here we go, slap on your thinking caps. Enjoy this nice long post. Happy reading. Trust me, it is worth it. Don't be frightened away by the length.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
I thought UBI soft was supposed to make Ghostrecon 3 not Zipper. Wow socom has taken everything that has made socom so fun away from the socom series. And lately when i have been playing the most beta testers taht I have seen online have been 75 out of ten thousand. I hope the beta is nothing like what the game will actually be like.
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There are a lot of changes into this new Socom, but you have to realize just one thing through it all. Socom1 to Socom2 was an expansion just like many Zipper and Sony representatives have said. This is a new game. Socom2 just added more maps, slightly altered gun power, and hit detection reduction. Socom3 is working on brand new servers with new and top of the line technology. It is going to be the best of the three yet, and no I am not just extremely optomistic. This is a reality. New technology and servers means the game will run better thus bringing fun back to socom. The things that make socom fun are the good times you share with friends or clan mates you meet online. Experiences you remember like going 34-4 on your favorite map. The time you took out all 8 guys by yourself being the last one alive. These experiences are what makes socom....socom. Not guns or movement speed. These are just toys to play with, not what makes Socom what it is. Get your facts straight, buddy.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
They went way overboard with the realistic feel. Hopefully they will increase the run speed on the characters and fix the names over head so its not so confusing since the terr and seals look so much alike and nothing worse then sneaking up on a terr or seal and there name goes over there head and that hesitation gets you killed. But if you like a slow game like ghost recon and like to camp and just wait for someone to walk into you bullets this will be the game for you. I do how everlike the gun selection and accuarcy of the guns and balance if very nice. Just don't think they should call this game SOCOM because it sure isnt
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You still don't understand that this is Beta. You are playing a version of the game just one peg up from the game everyone saw at E3. This is not what the end result will be like. They could have already changed everything around or altered things you don't like. On run speed and encumberance - they didn't add encumberance into the game yet. Beta doesn't have the effect. Everyone runs at the same speed. That is the speed you will be at with a full bar of encumberance on Socom3. For the players looking alike, I can relate to that. It is hard to pick out who is who, especially in the dark. I read on the Beta boards online that the name tags over people's heads is already being delt with. With character outfits you just have to realize that it is only one area of operations. only 3 or 4 maps will have the look alike patterns. If they have difference characters for every map we don't even have to worry much about the situation. I stronly disagree with your feelings on how you anticipate the gameplay to be like. If you hadn't noticed they went through a lot of trouble to make it so with larger maps and more player people will want to run out and not camp. Things like timers and winning with more people on the team at the end of the round will help a lot for this dilema. Give it time.
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Originally Posted by bernard
Its called moving on. Personaly i like more realistic changes no more rushers campers but tactics. slower guys better than seals running 50mph and terrors looking more pro i think its a good change. and yeah your right about the names but doesn't the crosshairs turn red anymore.
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There will still be rushers, campers, snipers, stealthers, and gunners. You can play whatever style of socom you prefer. Camping will not be big because of new changes, but that doesn't mean it is out entirely. Gunning won't be as ideal what with 16 people coming from all directions instead of 8, but it is still possible. Crosshairs do turn red, but there is a delay because the game we are playing is still unfinished.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
Things that made socom:
-Names over head
-Control able to move around jump and shoot
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Like I meantioned above, names over head and control to move around and jump and shoot would be trivial arguements in comparrison to what I think really makes socom what it is. I never even thought once about the ability to jump and shoot being out of the game. To be quite honest, with the imense amount of gear on it is a miracle they can even jump as high as they do in this game. Don't blame zipper for this, because I guarantee a fair share of socom players have complained about certain aspects of SocomII at some point or another. Now that Zipper is finally standing up and taking action all you can do is point to the unimportant things that have been changed. You never even thought about all the good Zipper has done with our beloved socom.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
People call it pray and spray but run and gun takes skill and is fun. I don't spray at all i use burst shot when im running and gunning its still about the aim. This game is going to be all camping i don't really see that much tactics comeing into play but where to hide. The fast past game design is all about socom series.
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Like I said earlier, camping will be limited because of several new enticing features. Running and Gunning takes skill, but we all know that. Controlling your burts and gunfire is crucial to this play style. Your crosshairs will be all over the place, even with guns which have little to no recoil whatsoever. Fast pace gameplay is not always evident, especially in wars. I see no difference. The public rooms will be the same careless and freegoing players rushing every which way. Wars will have more tactics and for that reason will obviously be played out longer. I see no change of gameplay here.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
They have changed all these things that makes socom stand out. People say the game is evolving and im all for it as long as the key principles that the fans expect to see stay intact. On the beta boards on the socom 3 server most of the feedback is bad people arent happy with the new game because it doesnt resemble socom at all. If i want resistic new play thats copied from halo, battlefied, ghost recon id play those games. I just want socom Back
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Socom is going to be socom. It is about the players and the feel, not the guns or smaller matters such as more realism. Within the first few weeks of Socom3 you will get adjusted and adapt to the new styles of gameplay. Socom will always be the greatest shooter in my eyes, and I am sure many people feel this way as well. Don't compare socom3 to halo or ghost recon, o even battlefield. These are all immensely different from our cherished socom. Halo is constant respawn and futuristic. Battlefield is also respawn which is extremely dependant on vehicles and has an almost rpg feel to it sometimes. Ghost recon is closest to socom, but the small tweaks and even some large ones makes ghost recon but a small sliver of what socom is. These games will never amount to the style that Socom alone carries.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
You could run and gun on socom 1 the only thing that makes it like socom 1 is guns and how many hits it takes to drop a player i like that its everything else that is trashy
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Play Socom1 for a few games. Then go to SocomII and claim that people take a long time to drop in Socom1. You obviously are misinformed are have lost your evident "close-grip" on reality.
Ofcourse you can run and gun on socom1. I don't know why this Run and Gun arguement has arrisen, but you guys obviously blew right past my post I made to end the arguement. It is meant to be a part of socom. The intention was to allow players to experience true battle. Seals don't always stop to shoot. That is a rediculous claim. If a Seal is in battle and a huge force is amassing in front of that seal which outnumbers he and his team, they will use manuevers to back up. Many of which can include running and gunning. This is a skill and a gift. Your accuracy decreased and your crosshairs are harder to control. This is how you can identify that it was the intention of Zipper to put this style into Socom.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
Most people like turning on a dime it called reflex skills and being able to aim fast. In real life you can turn on a dime too. Try turning look speed and dead look down in socom 1 and you will move about as fast as socom 2. And its not the movement speed that messed up socom 2 its the cheaters who use lag switches that make them move even faster and take a grip of hits.
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In real life you can turn on a dime, but then again you cannot do it so fast with 50lbs or more worth of gear on you while carrying a heavy weapon and more equipment depending on your preferences. I believe movement is much more realistic this time around. Remember, encumberance is yet to be added to Socom3. We are playing an unfinished game. I disagree about the cheaters and lag-switch users. Movement speed is a crucial asset to socom. In socom1 I thought it was just about right. In Socom2 you went way to fast. I mean you run right passed someone and shoot while you turn around. How is it that you can miss someone and run right passed them? We were going way to fast. The realism that Socom3 in it's final state will justify my claims. You will move slower or faster depending on your loadout. If you want more ammo and more powerful weapons you will have the disadvantage of slower movement. Those with lighter loadout and less powerful, smaller weapons will find the benefits of slightly more swiftful movements and actions. Ofcourse cheaters did a number to Socom2 just like they did in Socom1. All games will have cheaters. What sets one apart from the next is what the creaters are willing to do about it. I have to admit I lost faith in Zipper a long time ago. These new features being added to the game has rekindled my trust in Zipper. I have a feeling they will take care of us. Cheaters cannot be stopped from arising. Their dominance in the game can be altered, however. Let's hope for the best.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
Im not really trying to hate the game, I just couldnt believe how much they evolved the game in a direction more mainstream with other games. There are definately alot of postive things about socom three that i have said in other post I just don't see this game being at all like other socoms. If you like slow games and like to camp then this game will be the best of its kind.
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Again, you don't stop talking about slow moving games and camping. Once again I will remind you of clever additions to the game to remove slow moving or camping rounds. This will not eliminate camping in it's entirety, but for the most part it will not be a problem. Certain gametypes call for certain actions. In breach you cannot blame the terrorists for camping. That is their job. For Convoy, obviously both teams will be rushing and gunning in the open ground. It all depends on the type of game you are playing, not the people or the game itself.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
Im not trying to say this game is bad im just saying its not like any other socom. I see people complaining about things like one controller option or look speed these things wont be there in the final version im sure they will give you option. Im just shocked that the things that have made socom such a success are left out. On the community site many of us have posted to zipper in the beta about issues we have and i hope they will fix alot of them. I just don't have the taste for slow game play and camping which is what it is, but if you like that you will love this game.
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You finally realize that this is a beta at this point. Congratulations. Many things will be fixed and I am glad you finally admit to understanding that phenomenon. You were being to frighten me at your lack of intelligence and extreme ignorance. Now, you keep mentioning things that made socom a success being left out. So far I have only seen you mention two things. Both of which will most probably be fixed or altered in some way before the final release. Please, indulge me in what you believe made socom a success and will not be joining us in the third installment of our socom series?
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
Me and many others do post in the beta private forums. Again if you like camping and slow game play like many others games you will love this game it will be the best of its kind. Im just saying like in the post its not what Socom is all about. Socom is a fast past in your face shooting game. It take alot of skill to be able to run and gun. If you camp its because you can't run and aim at the same time me and my clan practive this all the time it takes practive and reflex so for those of you who think camping takes so much skill its the other way around.
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Running and Gunning takes skill, but so does camping. Knowing when to camp and when to rush is what makes a socom player. No offense, but I am confident in knowing if my team is playing on a map and we are losing by more than a couple rounds that we will not instantly rush into the open like rambo. That is why camping is as much a part of this game as any other tactic. Socom2 is not always fast pace, and socom3 is not always sluggish and slowly moving. I do agree that running and gunning is a great tactic. I can be defended on my mastery in that field of socom, but I am also a well known lover of camping. I don't stay in one area of the map and often can be found camping in what would be considered open or enemy territory. I am a gunning camper or a rush camper as it were. You won't find me in the hostage room or bomb base every round. I may be behind a tree in blizzard or in an enemy building in desert glory/crossroads. There is so much to do in socom. For you to bash and belittle campers is just plain ignorance lashing out. You probably have ADD or a short temper. Patience is a virtue, learn to master that and there will be no stopping you on socom.
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Originally Posted by HellsAssassins
Again if you like to camp like the want to be socoms games out there you will love this game and its great but many of us who like the socom series don't play it to camp. That has never been what the socom series has been about. Its about tactic and covering each other while running and gunning. And many other things that this time socom has left out im me previous post.
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You have no idea what this game is about. The beauty of socom is your ability to chose your actions. You aren't forced to camp, rush, snipe, or gun in this game. Anything you feel suits you best you can do and become skilled at. If you believe camping serves no purpose in socom, than you have not been playing for very long. Camping has been around since the first day on Socom1 nearly three years ago. If you weren't a frequent to socom1, then let me tell you a little story. Do you know the c4 wall in DG now? Well that was a result of people over abusing the hostage room with claymores. Another entrance had to be made because of the excessive camping. Do not come into this forum and make claims in which you have no resources or back up to prove. Camping is as much a part of socom as guns are.
Now let me get off your case for awhile and move to another large poster in this thread.
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Originally Posted by babygushue
I of course, quick snipe, jump and prone, and rush with my m14; however, I at least I acknowledge I am pushing the games limits causing LAG. Socom 3 will eliminate all of this which means NO LAG, resulting in a happy baby gushue and hopefully a happier socom community.....
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God, it is just so terrible to read these comments sometimes. Quick snipe? Are you mentally challenged? Sniping is sniping whether you follow a target for 30 seconds or zoom in and instantly shoot your opponent. There is no such thing as a quick snipe. The bullets are all quick you belligerent fool. You are simply just trying to blame the lag on something other than your less than adaquate internet connection. Jumping and proning fast was a mistake on Zipper's part. They have now secured this situation and made your character unable to dive and stand right back up. Socom players do this to avoid gunfire. It is simply using what has been given to you in order to win. That is the objective and shouldn't be considered glitching. Glitching, by personal definition, is identifing and using an exploit or error on the map or in the game to your advantage in order to win or defeat the opponent; it is an action that a player performs that was not intentionally meant to allow the player to do such as going into a wall or getting outside of the map. I don't think that running and gunning or proning and jumping qualifies, as I am sure everyone else here save yourself can agree with me on.
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Originally Posted by babygushue
Its funny when I prone and jump to where my cross hairs are on your body and I shoot. Its funny when I can jump extra high and quick snipe you. I'll use the terrorist in blue because he is the hardest to snipe since he is the skinnest. I will push the limits of the game to help me win even though pushing those limits means glitching. It is Zippers job to end glitching!
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Ok, now this just gets be annoyed, not even so much angry. Your ignorance and lack of common sense is getting old. Using a certain character skin to try and avoid getting sniped? Did you ever think to look at Pius once? He stands out like black stain on a white tee-shirt. That is the disadvantage of using him. The advantage is he is smaller and looks more sophisticated. I hope you are not talkign about Ninja Jumping when you claim to jump high and snipe. Ninja Jumping is an actual glitch and was not intended for use by Zipper. That is using an exploit in the game to your advantage which is against the User Agreement if you must know.
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It may not be realistic, but it is not glitching. Also, I don't see your point in saying it creates lag. All things in socom stack to create lag because its packages being sent to the host and back to players. It is misleading to say that running and gunning creates lag because those are two essential things that cause lag combined into one.
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This is the first intelligent thing I cam across in this thread so far. He is fact is correct. Everything essentially causes the game to lag. A person shooting a gun makes the room lag because the bullet movements from the weapon need to be registered from traveling from the player shooting to the host and back to every player in the room. This means when you shoot 20 bullets in 2 seconds when the room is 8v8 it will lag. Not because of the gun, but because 16 people need to register each movement of each bullet being shot from that gun and where each of them is going to hit. This causes lag when one person's connection is sluggish or when the host has a sluggish connection. One gun or action doesn't cause the lag, it is basically all linked back to the connections of the people in the room. The reason why this is removed from Socom3 is that new technology makes it so only the people in a certain grid of the map need to register movements and bullets. If you are on the other side of the map you don't need too this time around. This is unlike socom2 where if you are sitting in the terrorist base on blizzard and people are fighting at the seal base you still need to register the bullet movement. Understand? Good, because I thought it might have been a little bit over your head, Baby.
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Originally Posted by babygushue
sounds like Zipper figured out how to reduce lag. The funny thing is the players don't run slower because it reduces lag, they run slower because their equipment is holding them down, resulting in less lag. This is simple logic.....
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As states above, your logic is redundant and you are being illinformed to boot. You don't need to go that in depth to figure out why Socom3 isn't lagging as much. It is simple. New technology + New severs = Less problems (such as lagging). I am sure a person like you can appreciate a nice easy equation such as that.
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Originally Posted by babygushue
Jumping, falling, and poping back up is pushing the limits of the game. Doing so creates just enough lag to have an edge on the players who don't know the ins and outs of the game. These awkward movements makes it harder to get sniped and shot.....
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As stated above, your movements simple let you avoice getting shot by basically dancing around all over the place. They cannot hit you because you are an akwardly moving target, not because of patches of lag. However, if your connection or the host's connection is sluggish you might feel as though you can take bullets without a problem while doing this. That is what we get for playing a nearly two year old game on dieing servers. I could care less about those tiny patches of lag at this point. I have learned to play and adapt to a lagging person on my screen. Ofcourse it is still hard to kill a lagger, but you can adjust your play style to give yourself an edge none the less.
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Originally Posted by babygushue
The m14 is the most powerful, yet most unrealistic gun in the game next to the IW and m60. For some reason the m14 is tolerated by people because I guess it requires some sort of aim, but really it doesnt. As long as you have your cross hairs looking towards the crotch of the enemies body and just load on them you should get the kill. If you miss the crotch a spray and pray insues which usually results in a random head shot.
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You logic is limitless, yet pointless. They failed at balancing the weapons, it is not big deal. The M14 was meant to be powerful yet very innacurate. Eventually a person can use the power and limit the recoil with bursts. This is how a true person uses the M14. Now, this spray and pray buisness has always gotten me angry, but if they don't know how to play it is their only hope to take on someone who does. Still, a person needs to be close to the enemy for it to work. This simply means keep your distance and you will be fine. Ofcourse, people are quick to blame other people for their troubles without looking first at themselves. He spray and prayed you, yes. It is your fault he was able to do that though. Had you been safer you would have been farther away from him. Think about the Revolutionary war for a minute here. Armies used to form lines and march at eachother and shoot all the while. We were losing the war because they had more power than us. We then kept our distance and used guerilla tactics and stealth (special ops is born) to take them out from a far and while hidden. Think the same way for socom. If someone is charging you with an IW or an M14 you need to keep your distance and use your skill and knowlege of the map to aid you in taking him down. Everthing can be countered, no matter how unbalanced the weapons may be.
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People haven't realized that there is encumberance....which means....more stuff you have...slower you go.....quit saying running and gunning makes lag......nades make lag.....I have never..."lagged" while running and gunning....no....I don't do it much...but I haven't lagged unless there are nades going off.....
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Yea, but there is no encumberance yet. If there is it isn't working properly since everyone is moving at the same sluggish pace even with only a gun on with no other equipment than that one gun. The encumberance will work properly in the final release. This will allow, as I said above, people with less equipment and less powerfull weapons to move faster in comparrison to those with more equipment and powerful weapons. This gives the people with less power and edge. Everything is more balanced in Socom3, so don't worry about it. Explosions make up a lot of the lag since every finite detail must be registered to everyone's PS2 and back to the host. This is turn causes lag, but that is not controllable. The massive grenades being thrown are reduced with larger maps thus allowing for more smooth gameplay as well.
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Originally Posted by Thompson
You people need to get the point. Stop banning weapons. next war i go into where they ban every weapon except for the seal weapons i will *censored* scream untill i go into a stroke and die and haunt them. Shut the F ^ The M14 does not create lag. You complaining on the mic does.
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This is too true. People don't like the M14 because they are too lazy to attempt to counter it's power with stealth. Too many weapons are being banned. I personally like to play without Grenade launchers and rocket launchers in wars because the maps are too small to accomodate them which proves for tainted gameplay. I have no intentions of doing so on Socom3, but I like to play without them on Socom2. Now, as far as the M14 and IW go I have no problems playing with them. The IW causes the most lag as a result of it's fast and accurate fire sequence. This is why the IW can seemingly shoot around corners and through walls. You got hit once or twice but it won't register until 3 or 4 seconds later. This gives them a window of opportunity to get one or two shots off without you knowing you are getting hit then by time you lose half your health in the fight the delayed reaction causes you to die behind walls or around corners several seconds after getting out of the way. This is why I dislike the IW, but I won't be the one to ban it. If the other team says no IW I simply agree. I don't use the M3, IW, or M14 in wars anyway. I am an M4sd/M16 type of guy in wars.
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Originally Posted by babygushue
You won't like Socom 3 because you have ADD. You won't like Socom 3 because you can't rush with a very powerful/unrealistic lag shield gun either. Clearly Zipper agrees with me rather then you because he directed the NEW game towards my complaints. You have no complaints because you lag and it helps your style of play. Of course I have to play run and gun/ quick snipe prone jump style just like you and its fun, but guess what...it is easy as *censored* ...time for something new champ....socom 3...word ^
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This is actually true. Socom3 will reduce most lag. Many of us are so accustomed to the lag that our styles of play are powered around the laggers. They way many of us play is simply to be a match for lagging players. There isn't much you can do in Socom2 about it, but now in Socom3 we will not have to worry ourselves with lag. Now the first time I hear "I lit him up" or "He lags!!" I will laugh and vote them off. There is no point to get so worked up over lag to begin with. It is unavoidable with online games. Zipper did work very well on reducing it with Socom3, and trust me it will be noticable, but lag will always be there. It is something we will just have to deal with until everyone has a cable or better connection.
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Originally Posted by GoofyZ
In socom1 there where large maps (in single player yessss) and in socom2 there where big maps (yeah yeah in single player mtf (pls play single player and not online all the time)) and now there is a new technology streaming sow now they can add large maps in the online gameplay wich is GOOD cause we like stealth and not ALA CSS or DOOM or whatever shoot'em up or other third person shooter.
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Yes, the beauty of Socom, as mentioned by me about 2 essay above this sentence, is that we can choose what we wish to do. In most other games you just run around like a chicken with it's head cut off trying to kill something. Socom is not all about running out and being rambo. Socom takes skill in various areas to master. You need to know when to stealth, when to camp, and when to rush. There is no proper way to play socom, which is why it is so appealing to me. Most other games there is one way to play and whoever is the best in that one way is simply the best. That is not true of Socom, and is why I view it as the greatest shooter ever created thus far in our existance.
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Originally Posted by c0mmand3r
Let me put an end to this rediculous rant and dispute going on. There is still run and gun in Socom3. It does not contribute to lag any more than anything else. Running and gunning is meant to be in the game. You are meant to be able to run and shoot at your target. Why do you think your accuracy decreases as you run or when you stand? This is all intentional. Now please, get back on to the topic.
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Words of a wise man!
I hope you all learned something from this post. I make one of these posts (where I comment on nearly every post in the thread) every once in awhile. This one took me about 2 hours to slap together but was worth it.
