North American Ethnocentrism

[Mister Grinch]

Originally Posted by xa

If they're not legal why do they get welfare? They definitely shouldn't. Welfare should be for citizens.

Good point...they're not legal...yet they do get welfare. I see this all the time in my hometown. No one knows how they do it except for them. We just know they do, and it's b.s.

Originally Posted by xa

Everyone should be taxed too,(digress) churches, mosques, government workers, the president. At least if they want in on politics.

What a ridiculous statement to make. Tax the president...who gets paid with tax dollars? You're gonna tax the president and pay him back with the money he just paid in taxes? C'mon...

Originally Posted by xa

(Un-digress) Ok, do your sweep watch what happens :D . Soon afterward you'll wish them back. Who does the nesecary but not fun things? Illegal immigrants. How many illegal immigrants produce fake pills and screw masses of people out of their money? Probably few to none.

What fake pills? Drugs? You shouldn't be buying drugs unless they're necessary; and if they're illegal, you should be in jail right next to the illegal aliens... If you're talking about medicine, don't get mad at the people who made it...be mad at the person who prescribed it to you because they "knew" it'd work.

Originally Posted by xa

Who murders people? Legal citizens, when's the last time you hear of a brutal murder done by an illegal alien? Not frequently thats for sure.

Wow...is this really one of your arguments? Who murders people? Criminals. What are illegal aliens? Criminals. So criminals murder people, and illegal aliens are criminals...therefore...[fill in the blank] Are you saying it should be okay for all criminals to be allowed to walk freely in the U.S. and work for pennies on the dollar? Not to offend, but that's semi-retarded.
For argument's sake, let's say the same U.S. citizen that butchered people here in the states goes to Mexico so he can't be punished. He doesn't commit murders in Mexico because then where will he go? So now he's an illegal alien there who doesn't murder people...at least not anymore.

Originally Posted by xa

They don't steal jobs they just work harder, that's like saying someone stole your grade because they studied and tried. If you are willing to work long hard hours for illegally low pay you won't have trouble finding a job.

The illegal low pay isn't there unless the employer thinks the person is willing to work for it. Employers know that they must pay minimum wage to people who must prove that they're American citizens, because real U.S. citizens understand that they have rights that allow for no less than a certain dollar per hour wage. The problem lies wherein the illegal alien is allowed to reside in the U.S. long enough to look for a job and tell an employer that he/she's willing to work for peanuts (for lack of a better term). It's compounded by the employer seeing opportunity to cut back on expenses for manual labor...instead of reporting the illegal alien that's going around looking for an illegal job. Sure...the employer is at fault here...but if the illegal alien was in his/her own country, the scenario wouldn't exist. Furthermore, if they'd go ahead and become citizens of the U.S., they'd be able to get paid more for the same job. Weird, huh.

Originally Posted by Straight from the devil's mouth ;)

"There are some people -- there are some jobs in America that Americans won't do and others are willing to do."

[DaKilla]

First of all, some of the illegal immigrants are the most intelligent people you'll meet when it comes to U.S. law; I'm not saying they all are, for this would be an obvious fluke, but there are a few handful that really know the loopholes. They know how to abuse the system and they do it - often times they studied U.S. law before entering. Of course, this is only talking about the elitest of them. I personally find that if they can take the time to find a loophole in the system, they shouldn't necessarily be punished for it, but instead let alone (maybe even granted citizenship). Imagine how concrete the laws would be if foreigners combed the law-books to find a loophole to become a citizen. The holes would be patched with minimal amounts of intelligent immigrants being allowed in. This is, of course, totally off topic.

Originally Posted by Mister Grinch

What a ridiculous statement to make. Tax the president...who gets paid with tax dollars? You're gonna tax the president and pay him back with the money he just paid in taxes? C'mon...

Why is it ridiculous to tax the president? If he doesn't get taxed, they should axe some of that $400,000 paycheck. Military members get paid by tax money, so they shouldn't pay either? It seems like favoritism for certain people to me.

Also, the point of the drug argument was not about legal drugs, obviously. And the comment about "screw the masses out of their money" is also true. How often does an illegal immigrant come and take all of your money in the fashion big corporations (see: Enron) do? I think this argument has some validity, not necessarily much, but some.

As for the murderers... You're [Mister Grinch] just as bad as him [xa] for making it sound as if only illegal immigrant commit crimes because they are, in your opinion, criminals. You turn his argument to say that murders only occur because there are illegal immigrants. This makes less sense than xa's argument...

My last point is on the illegal immigrants taking jobs. I've known several illegal immigrants (and yes, I knew some weren't necessarily legal), and quite frankly, the only jobs they got where pretty bad. If anything, I'd definitely blame the employer more than the employee - these people come in hopes to support a family back home. One friend of the family was sending practically his whole paycheck back to Russia to put some food on the table for his children. Are these the types of people you want to punish instead of the rich employer, sitting on his fat walt, utilizing cheap labor in return for not ratting him out?

Becoming a citizen isn't exactly easy, there's a lot to it. All of the comments so far have been based on: "why doesn't he just come legally?" If it were that simple, I'm sure they would... If you've got a family to support and are on the brink of starvation, I'd expect you to do the same. Of course, not all immigrants are like this, either.

My last point is simply that in many circumstances, there is a big grey area. You can't look at the whole thing as a black-and-white scenario, that's not how it works. On top of all that, I'd like to say that you should have more pressing issues on your mind.

[xa]

I accept defeat. I've been friggin Uwn3d on this topic and I'm retreating.

[SuperYooper]

Why is it ridiculous to tax the president? If he doesn't get taxed, they should axe some of that $400,000 paycheck. Military members get paid by tax money, so they shouldn't pay either? It seems like favoritism for certain people to me.

He is the supreme commander of the military. He is about as high ranked as you can get. But rank dosent matter. Active military almost always have a tax exempt status. Some have a card that they present, and some get a letter to present.

And yes XA, you lost, but dont feel bad.

[xa]

To DK. You're still wrong but I'm out.

[DaKilla]

Originally Posted by SuperYooper

He is the supreme commander of the military. He is about as high ranked as you can get. But rank dosent matter. Active military almost always have a tax exempt status. Some have a card that they present, and some get a letter to present.

And yes XA, you lost, but don't feel bad.

I must have missed all those tax exempt military members, because all I ever knew paid taxes. But who am I to tell, I just live near a U.S. military base and am in constant contact with them... I know that they pay taxes - perhaps not as much for some reason, but they do still pitch in.

Also, what does it matter what his rank is; as you said, it doesn't, It is stated (in the Constitution?) that no man is above the law, including the president. If you ask me, equality means not only equal rights, but equal burdens.

[SuperYooper]

After further review, I am a dumbass. I suppose the wages are taxed. But for instance if you are on active duty, and staying at a hotel, your stay would be tax exempt. You win twice...kinda.

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by DaKilla

Are these the types of people you want to punish instead of the rich employer, sitting on his fat walt, utilizing cheap labor in return for not ratting him out?

DK, this is all I'm going to say my friend.











The Nazies lost. Ideals in which we punish the rich man for that fact of being rich, are extremely liberal. The rich man in a corporation is not to blame for the hiring of illegal aliens. If I do recall, there are many steps in which issues like that are routed out unless it becomes a growing problem. The heads of Corporations really have no immediate consern for smaller problems like that in the smaller towns that allow these people to take the jobs.

America is all about equal opportunity. A illegal alien is picked over a possible white or black man due to his race/ethnic orgins. This is to keep possible lawsuits from LEGAL ETHNIC ORGANIZATIONS from sueing a company based on Unfair/Racist Selection of Employee's.

So, if you blame the rich white guy, you must see this fault in the system. I say, tighten the boarders to keep possible situations like this from occuring and we wouldn't have this problem.

SuperTrooper, Amen my brother.

[DaKilla]

Originally Posted by Cheesy

The Nazies lost.

What does this have to do with the Nazis? It seems like Americans (in general) have skewed knowledge of what Nazism and Socialism (and Communism) actually are. The Nazis didn't punish the rich for being rich - the only reason they would punish them is if they were non-Aryan or if they spoke out against the government. So I really don't understand this point; anyway, moving on.

Originally Posted by Cheesy

The rich man in a corporation is not to blame for the hiring of illegal aliens. If I do recall, there are many steps in which issues like that are routed out unless it becomes a growing problem. The heads of Corporations really have no immediate consern for smaller problems like that in the smaller towns that allow these people to take the jobs.

The "big guy" may not be to blame directly, but it is his corporation. If he really cared, he'd have something done - something he doesn't do. So the problem isn't that he allows illegal aliens, it's that he doesn't disallow them. And by doing nothing, I think he is indirectly to blame; of course, the real blame is on the person who hired the person (which may or may not be linked to the 'top dog').

Originally Posted by Cheesy

America is all about equal opportunity. A illegal alien is picked over a possible white or black man due to his race/ethnic orgins. This is to keep possible lawsuits from LEGAL ETHNIC ORGANIZATIONS from sueing a company based on Unfair/Racist Selection of Employee's.

Do you really think they go to court over people not hiring illegal immigrants? If they did, the aliens would be deported. If the person is legally here and hired because he's a minority, that's a different story.

Originally Posted by Cheesy

So, if you blame the rich white guy, you must see this fault in the system. I say, tighten the boarders to keep possible situations like this from occuring and we wouldn't have this problem.

I see a major fault in all capitalistic systems, but I'm not going to rant about it any more. The one comment on that I would like to make is that these problems arise because capitalism stresses material success as opposed to moral success - the reason people hire cheap labor.

[Mael]

I know a Mexican who was trying to get his brother to become a US citizen. It took three simple forms and a test, thats it. The only hard part he actually had was paying for the lawyer he HAD to get to help in his case. The only reason it took him months to get in the US was because of his corrupt lawyer who screwed him over by costing more than usual pay for his services. He never communicated with his client and basically dragged out his court case to get more money from him.

We (not me) Americans are incouraging illegal immigrants to come here. They give them drivers liscences and don't tax them. They let stupid Ethnic groups control our laws. Illegals and these so-called Ethnic groups bribe our government officials to get them across the borders. Americans are bringing them over in truck loads just to make thousands of dollars.

F*ck all these illegal immigrants. They are the reason us American citizens are poor because these companies want to make a quick buck by saving on manual labor. They can save more money by paying illegal immigrants $2 an hour than paying us our measly $ 6.15 minimum wage.