Opinions...Death and other emotional subjects

[Scuba Steve]

First off, do not lock this thread. I posted this, so everyone can voice their opinions in a civilized way. If a member does spam in here, do not lock the thread, just delete that post.

First of all, let me tell you that I am an Atheist...I have my reasons, as do others whether they believe in god or not. I am not going to sit here and say Mael's opinion on death is wrong (however cruel or harsh it may seem to some of you), because that is his opinion. It is true everyone will die someday (except "god" which is another reason why I am an Atheist), but I feel we should charish their death and remember those whom we have lost...It does not matter if a person died from a heartattack, or was bruttaly murdered...A death is a death, and that is my opinion. I don't think boba had to get that mad about Mael's remark

(All you ppl are stupid for thinking anyone is responsible for other peoples actions. We kill ppl cuz we choose to not becuz we are forced to. Voting is completely illogical,saying that our votes actually matter. Most polls are a matter of opinion NOT fact! To say that someone takes a poll then thats what most ppl think. I for one am in the group of ppl who don't take polls.Incase u don't get it.....Not everyone votes so how can you say that is what everyone in America thinks.Not everyone takes polls so how can u say the same thing about America and its ppl. PS Im one of those many sick,twisted and morbid ppl who actually think death and destruction is funny.I laughed my *censored* off when I watched ppl fall(jump) off the towers.We all are gunna die so why cry and whine about it. America soldiers join the army becuz they want to defend the country. It does'nt matter who tells them where to go. If someone joins they also know they might die during a war.Its the ppl who are left behind or have someone close to them that *censored* and whine. If there is anyone in the army *censored* about being there should have never joined in da first place knowing what they were getting into. I have no soul. )


Last time I saw that many *censored* icons, the person was banned...

Anotherthing, for all of you that said "Maelthedumbass" you are all just making the situation worse...It is just showing how low you must go to get back on someone who is voicing his opinion. With that being said, most of you said Mal has his own opinions, but he could have said them differently...What about boba? He had at least 20 *censored* icons in their, and his post was much, much more innapropriate and offending.


Please respect my first wishes, and do not spam in here...If you want to voice your opinion, do it in an honorable manner...

Thank you,
Scuba Steve

[Boba.Fatt]

I would like to know what it is you have against me Steve. If you care to tell me in an honorable fashion I would really appreciate it. If not, i'll try to get on with my life.

I don't care about anyones opinion on death and all that stuff. To each their own. I too am an atheist with many of my own beliefs. I also live 10 miles away from World Trade Center and the horror I experienced that day is unexplainable to anyone who wasn't right there. If I take exremelly harsh offense to someone saying they laughed when people jumped 100 stories to their death, you'll have to excuse me. In my mind (everyone is entitled to their own opinion, right?) I did nothing wrong in bashing the person who said that. It was just plain wrong.

There is definitely a fine line between opinion and downright wrong. I will not take back anything I said and I meant every single *censored* in my post about it.

[Soggwolf]

Ok I am going to take this into two seperate parts

Mael
------------------------

First we need to question his authenticity. He stated himself that his family has "tried to help him". Obviously the use of the word help would imply that he beleives he is wrong for this opinion. He also mentions "PS Im one of those many sick,twisted and morbid ppl who actually think death and destruction is funny"...which would denote that he obviously thinks that he is wrong in his beliefs. If you believe that you are wrong in your claims than they couldn't possibly be your true beliefs. Possible, but not likely. Another interesting point, if you will note, is while never claiming his opinions to be "right", he was quick to claim First Amendment, "You just hate my beliefs" route, and I beleive you bit on it ScubaSteve. Now this may not mean anything at all, but it could imply that he only wanted to stir people. Maybe play the Devil's Advocate, or possibly just shock people for his opinion. I stated earlier that there were much better ways to conduct his opinion, yet he took a very bold, angry, and ignorant approach to explaining his beliefs. Now this could simply be his ignorance, however, most people are able to conduct explanations of themselves in a non-confrontational way which should be looked into for our friend Mael.

Originally Posted by [AOE

SCUBA<=>STEVE]Anotherthing, for all of you that said "Maelthedumbass"

While I agree response is futile, Mael knew he was going to strike a very strong chord in people and therefore was asking for it. I have no problem with Boba's response, as it was exactly what Mael wanted judging from his earlier posts.

Now let's not kid ourselves. Everyone is open to their own opinions and should be. But consider this-

How is Mael's post different from someone who posts "ANYONE WHO USES A M14 IS A NOOB" and just leaves it at that. If you have a position on an issue, then you are entitled to it, however, there are much better ways to voice it such as "I disagree with the M14 due to its power, availability, and fire rate". I agree with Mael's post to a certain extent, however, the way he conducted himself was not only ignorant and immature, it was flame-worthy.



My Personal Beliefs
----------------------------
I'm going to go ahead and share a personal fact in which three of my good friends have died with in a 6-month span. One hung himself, another shot himself in the mouth, and the last died in a jetski accident. I have not shed a tear, not because I do not care or that I am not emotionally wounded from the events, but because logically- I know that the tears do not revive the dead. I agree with Mael that we need to move on and conduct ourselves in our every day life and no matter how many funerals, ceremonies, and alters we place, it won't make them come back. Furthermore, I am not religious at all. If you are, I tip my hat to you, however it is just not my taste of brandy. I don't know if there is a heaven or a hell, however, I do know that while I am here, I am going to live my life and be content with it.

Unfortunately, religion is much bigger than we would like to think it is. Atheists as well, because lets face it- religion dictates our opinion of what is right and what is wrong. You can say that it doesn't, and you do what you do because it is right in your mind, however, when you think of the most pure place in the world, many people think of churches. Not everyone- But many people.

These are my opinions. Please do not take offense, as none of the prior statement after "My Personal Beleifs" were directed towards anyone in particular.

[Cheesy]

Ah yes, someone brought up the all-famous First Amendment. The line of free speech is so incorrectly defined by the average joe, that it is soon to become a joke. You are allowed to say whatever you want, but whenever your words take offence to someone, you have just verbally harassed someone.

Harassment is wrong. We know that. Claiming that the First Amendment protects you, is like holding up a cardboard box to protect yourself from the incoming bullet. I see Mael as the small boy holding the box.

Scuba<=>Steve. Please see that, your heart is in the right place, but you are voicing it at the wrong times. I see you do have something against Boba, so why not voice it? Do it in a PM please.

Now back to death:
A few months ago, my great-grandfather died at the age of 96. Now I am religious, and won't lie about it. I feel because he was a great, honorable man, that he is in a better place. Now what did I do when I heard the news? I was upset and shed a few tears. I realized how delicate the short strand of life is. We take it for granted.

It isn't funny to see someone die. Mael, did you at least watch the horror unfold on TV? I watched the whole thing. Seeing so many innocent lives die, it sickens me. You can't laugh. HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY LAUGH?!
As Boba said,

There is definitely a fine line between opinion and downright wrong. I will not take back anything I said and I meant every single *censored* in my post about it.

I agree 110%.

Mael, I challenge you to go to a busy street and use your "First Amendment" rights. Voice your opinion about 9-11. Or rather, go to New York City and try it. Then right before you get stabbed, shot, or mutilated, scream "FIRST AMENDMENT!" Will anyone care? Will anyone care that you "voiced your opinion". I'll tell you right now, life and death is not a joke.

Will you be laughing when you die?

[WET]

Originally Posted by Cheesy

Will you be laughing when you die?

That is exactly the answer I am waiting for.

I guarantee that if it were Mael falling from one of those towers to his death, he would not be so non-chalant about it. He has obviously been desensitized by television and his oh-so-quaint suburban life. If he had seen any real tragedy up close and personal in his life he might be more understanding. Unfortunately he has not and remains ignorant.

Steve, if he is allowed to say he laughed about someone's tragic death then I am allowed to call him a dumbass. You say that we were just making the situation worse? Well what do you think you just did by starting this thread? You think it is ok to stand up for him? It is his opinion. Let him stand up for himself. All you have done is made more people on this forum angry about it, when we might have just chalked it up to ignorance on Mael's part and let it go when Cheesy locked the thread.

This is a video game forum. Yes we have an off-topic area, but I don't think that it was meant to be this way. We have had more fights in here than I care to count. Thanks for adding fuel to the fire Steve.

[MrRob]

I'll be brief....

Boba....my apologies for your losses.....but that was a lot of censors.....calm down....like I am ALWAYS saying....everyone is entitled to an opinion (yours being to brutalize Mael) but there are BETTER ways to say it....we'd like to keep it clean....please choose your words wisely....I myself make this mistake as well, and I'm trying to get better.....so please.....no more censors.....it's not a sign of disrespect or anything....it's just I figured I would ask......

Mael....ugh....um....uh......yeah......I have a theory....Marilyn Manson is a normal everyday guy, that just decided to act weird and get a mass following of freaks....but he gets ALL of the freaks money.....like was already stated....shock value......but being a Socom 2 forum....shock value is worthless.....

Me own thoughts....well.....everyone deals with death and things on their own individual basis....no one's right....no one's wrong.....death is something i don't concern myself with.....i'm generally young....though not healthy.....still have a lot ahead of me....so why even think about it?....I've lost friends/family to drug addictions and have moved on since....they're still a thought....but a good one....

[Mael]

First off I want to apologize if my remarks have offended ANYONE. I did not say those things for any shock value or malice towards anyone who has lost ANY loved ones for any reason. My opinions I will agree might offend ppl but they are not meant to in any way. I will explain myself in the easiest way i can.


I find death amusing because I have been close to it before.( attempted suicide when I was younger) I have no fear of death nor do I wish it upon ANYONE. ( I did watch the entire attack on the news and I know what went on) I go to horror movies and laugh at them. How anyone can watch a movie about death and then cry when it actually happens to someone? Ppl who go see them are there for entertainment (how is that different than me laughing at death in general?). People play Socom to that very same effect.

This IS a touchy subject because many ppl have many views on death. They can sometimes get a little emotional.This is an OPEN discussion and as an open discussion everyone involved shouldn't believe other ppl's opinion but should atleast be a little less close-minded and not keep anyone from speaking.

I also believe I shouldnt take crap from anyone that is why I said any mean words towards those who did so.

I am willing to talk further to anyone who wants to discuss this. (IN A CIVILIZED MANNER)


((THANKS FOR OPENING THIS POST)) I look forward to it.

DaKilla EDIT: Yes, I banned Mael, but after he offered his sincerest regrets and offered to apologize, I could do nothing but let him back. And after reading this post, I'm glad I did so.

[Cheesy]

Originally Posted by Mael

How anyone can watch a movie about death and then cry when it actually happens to someone? Ppl who go see them are there for entertainment (how is that different than me laughing at death in general?).

Ok. Death WAS entertainment about 200 years ago whenever they would do Mass Guillotines in public squares. But this is different. You said you laughed whenever an INNOCENT person, tried to end their life quicker than being crushed by tons apon tons of steel.

It makes no sense...

I'm done with this topic for a while...Someone laughing at death is too, "illogical" for me.

[Scuba Steve]

Originally Posted by ~WETWORKS

Steve, if he is allowed to say he laughed about someone's tragic death then I am allowed to call him a dumbass. You say that we were just making the situation worse? Well what do you think you just did by starting this thread? You think it is ok to stand up for him? It is his opinion. Let him stand up for himself. All you have done is made more people on this forum angry about it, when we might have just chalked it up to ignorance on Mael's part and let it go when Cheesy locked the thread.

Read my first paragraph...I also think if someone else "high and mighty" made this thread, you would have never said "Well what do you think you just did by starting this thread?" It is rather like the R.I.P. threads...If a normal member makes one, right away it is locked...

I also got flamed when I said "Last time I saw that many *censored* icons, the person was banned... " MrRob had told in detail for boba to calm down and such...

Originally Posted by Cheesy

I see you do have something against Boba, so why not voice it? Do it in a PM please.

Because I told him he had too many censors? Read what Mrrob wrote...

Originally Posted by ~WETWORKS

Thanks for adding fuel to the fire Steve.

First off, **** you. You always put me down, and critisize me. Sort of like a bully at school...I have never had you say anything positive about me, just negative remarks...


I take offense when you say I am siding with Mael...I thaught if he had any right mind, or when DaKilla "threatened" to ban him, he would apologize for offending people.

The way I see it, Mael's opinion is negative in my mind...You are all getting mad at his opinion because it is wrong to you. He could be feeling the same way because your opinion is wrong to him.

Now, I know I will get bad remarks for this post (not that it is unusual) but I won't really pay attention to them...I am sure if I was the one posting boba's remarks, instead of him, I would get my a** kicked, and you and I know it.

[MrRob]

WAIT A FREAKING MINUTE!!!!!!!

Steve mentioned my name and there wasn't anything negative around it?

Awesome....good stuff Steve...

Um yeah....I just TRIED to ask Boba to watch his language in what I felt was a "respectful" manner.....

But um.....as far as the rest of this stuff goes....I've said my piece, and if I haven't then I feel it's not my place......

At least Mael came out and explained himself....there's a lot worse ways that he could've approached this.....most of them involving more censors followed by a banning for REPEATED insubordination....probably spelled that wrong, but there's the grammar-fixer.....anyway....he took the higher ground after all was said and done....no one's opinion was right and no one's was wrong....some might have been stated incorrectly.....but what isn't stated incorrectly on this site?

Nah, it looks good. GO ROB!